Another Russell Puzzler!

[kathsgirl.48]

I found a Marriage on findmypast and ancestry but both only show a Transcription as below.

However I can't find a Marriage Registration to order the Certificate. Can anyone else help on this one Please

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973

Name: John Russell
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 5 Jul 1867
Marriage Place: Stansted, Sussex, England
Spouse: Emma Richardson

[Sussex Maid]

kathsgirl.48
Couldn't find a marriage reg on freebmd.
Have you discounted the marriage 30 Aug 1868 at Woolwich for John Russell, son of Thomas Russell to Emma Richardson, dau of James Richardson?
Regards

[Anne in Carlisle]

I have long suspected that some of those 'Selected Marriages' are in fact only Banns. Perhaps the marriage did not take place or was delayed?
Anne

[Sussex Maid]

Forgot to say that the marriage place of 'Stansted, Sussex, England' is wrong, there is no Stansted in Sussex, the only one I know of is in Essex.
Regards

[Guest]

they married in Sept quarter 1868 Woolwich 1D 1160 oops snap

[kathsgirl.48]

Yes I have..John's father was John Russell and Emma's father was a James Richardson but not a gamekeeper. 1861 Emma Richardson age 18 was living in Stoughton, Sussex, John Russell was aged 21 living in Battersea

1871 They are living as man and wife in Barracks in Civil Parish: Fordington, Dorset.

John Russell 31
Emma Russell 27
James Russell 2
William G Russell 5 Months

[kathsgirl.48]

Me too..Stansted in Essex!

[kathsgirl.48]

Just to confirm...James Russell's parents are John Russell and Emma Richardson as per Birth Certificate.

[Sylvia C]

could this be another case of a soldier who had not got permission to be married???


The Banns may have been called, and then his superiors found out about it, so no marriage took place.

That would mean that the marriage in August 1868 is the correct one.

The occupations of the fathers could be wrong because John and Emma did not remember correctly. Not unusual.

[Sussex Maid]

Having a look at the census -
1841 - Emma Richardson is in Stoughton, Sussex with father James, Ag lab and mother Harriet
1851 - Emma is in Stoughton with mother Harriot Richardson, head, married, 'gamekeepers wife', haven't been able to find James
1861 - Emma is in Stoughton with father James 'woodman' - all children shown as born 'Sussex, Stansted', address is 'Old Lodge, Stansted Park, Stoughton'
On the 1868 marriage certificate John Russell gives his occupation as 'gunner, Royal Horse Artillery' - maybe, as suggested above, the Banns were called at Stansted Chapel Stoughton but the marriage didn't take place.
1871 - Emma is with husband John in Barracks Dorchester, John's occupation looks like 'driver RHA'

Regards

[Caroline]

Coming late to this but Stansted Park is in Sussex although it has a Havant (Hampshire postcode) these days. The stomping ground of some of my "roots" who wandered across the Hants/Sussex borders and thus gave different birthplaces in every census..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stansted_Park

[SmallTownGirl]

I have long suspected that some of those 'Selected Marriages' are in fact only Banns. Perhaps the marriage did not take place or was delayed?
Anne

If they've been indexed by LDS, then you could be right. They index the latest date in the banns register as the marriage date unless there's a marginal note that specifically says the marriage date. If the marginal note has a date, but doesn't specify it was the marriage date, they index the date of the last reading of the banns. And even if the cleric has crossed through the whole entry and/or written something like "marriage did not proceed", they still index the last date of the banns as the date of the marriage.

STG

[kathsgirl.48]

Thank you all so much for your replies on this one. I'm convinced now that they did get married in Woolwich after all. It was John Russell quoting his father's name as Thomas that threw me. Maybe he was an uncle or a brother that I'm not aware of. Should have twigged that one... as a relative of mine quoted his brother as his father when he got married!

Also the thought has gone through my mind that perhaps the Stansted marriage might not have taken place as I couldn't find another John Russsell marrying an Emma Richardson in the right time scale.

Thanks once again. I knew you lot on here would come to a good conclusion.

[kathsgirl.48]

Having a look at the census -
1841 - Emma Richardson is in Stoughton, Sussex with father James, Ag lab and mother Harriet
1851 - Emma is in Stoughton with mother Harriot Richardson, head, married, 'gamekeepers wife', haven't been able to find James
1861 - Emma is in Stoughton with father James 'woodman' - all children shown as born 'Sussex, Stansted', address is 'Old Lodge, Stansted Park, Stoughton'
On the 1868 marriage certificate John Russell gives his occupation as 'gunner, Royal Horse Artillery' - maybe, as suggested above, the Banns were called at Stansted Chapel Stoughton but the marriage didn't take place.
1871 - Emma is with husband John in Barracks Dorchester, John's occupation looks like 'driver RHA'

Regards

According to 1871 Census John states he was born in Croydon.

When his son James was born in Dec 1868 Oulton, Leeds Yorks his father John was a Groom!