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  • #41
    and of course she may have lived as a married couple but not actually married.

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    • #42
      maybe her fathers will may give a clue ?

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      • #43
        do you know when her brother Norman died ?? as on the Electoral roll for 2002-2011 there is a Nancy Bell 65+ and a Norman Bell
        living at
        79, Garth Thirtythree, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne And Wear, NE12 6DB for 27 years ??
        Last edited by Guest; 01-05-15, 12:38.

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        • #44
          yeah there is that Val...and yes, having her father last residence and year of death is definitely a good lead

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          • #45
            Hello

            Not sure if you are still keeping with Val's findings on the electoral register for Yardley. Here is a link to a Trade Directory for Birmingham.




            It would seem that the premises at Coventry Road where Nancy Bell is in 1939 is Draper's shop owned by Minnie Lipscome and N Adams.

            Seems strange that Nancy gave up caring for her child when her family were still alive. Wonder if there was some post birth illness which prevented this.

            Vera
            Last edited by vera2013; 01-05-15, 20:13.

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            • #46
              Hi again Vera, ....



              I had been concentrating on her dads (as I found his will) and possible siblings in a around the Darlington Area for possible leads... I really know nothing of certain yet, but may well get back on that Nancy trail vera found. A drapers shop is interesting, could well just be visiting friends, took a job there..stop gap something like that....


              The reason why she left, and would leave her baby is something no one knows, it seems unconscionable to think of today, but I'm sure she had her reasons . My uncle only knew her name and nothing else... he is getting on a bit I would love to find out for him, anything.


              The search continues …............

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              • #47
                I can think of two reasons why she did not bring up the child herself.

                1. - The child's father would not allow it. As his name was on the birth cert (even though he was a bigamist!) that meant that he "owned" the child and the mother had no say.

                2. - Her family would have nothing to do with the child because he was born outside marriage. That still mattered to a lot of people in those days. If they would not help her, then what was she to do? I wouldn't assume that she just swanned off and forgot about her child, she may have thought he would be better looked after by his father's family than by her.

                And of course, the child only knows that he never met his mother. That dosn't mean that she didn't visit, or keep an eye on him from afar. My friend discovered that "Auntie Margaret" whom he saw once a year and who used to clutch hold of him and weep, was his real mother. It was a family secret between two sisters.

                Vera - I was going to suggest that Nancy was either in service or living on a shop premiises as that would explain why she couldn't vote in local by-elections.

                OC

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                • #48
                  Hello OC

                  Nancy was younger than my mother and from the same area so that is what I am basing my feelings on.
                  I agree with everything you say about what could be the scenario but from my experience illegitimate children were cared for within the family shame or no shame.

                  I don't know the law on mother's rights over their children but would not have expected a father to take on the role of caring for a child if his wife was alive and well. I think perhaps Nancy was unwell.

                  NBrady maybe a perusal of similar records as her father but in the Newcastle area will show up something

                  re trials for bigamy there are some cases reported in The Times (From Lancs digital library) for various parts of the Country so think if he had been prosecuted this would have been reported.



                  Vera

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                  • #49
                    Nancy & Tommy were married in the local registry office in August of 1933. Their son, (my uncle) was born 4 months later, The scenario i think... this was a rush marriage..." we better get married here" because of scandal reasons OC has outlined. A full 5months later they both registered the birth with their own second names, and different address. I've checked electral registers and Nancy husband never moves away from that address until his death. She was only 19 and wasn't on the register but her family moves from the address she gave on the BC that same year. Maybe Annie showed up kicking off and Nancy and all her family moved away...so many scenarios one can only guess?

                    Thomas Brady married for a 3rd time in 1944, and his bride later came out with, he married her bigamist, and he got prosecuted for it...even said he did time for it. I've had the local records out HUGE book binder things full of divorces and I couldnt find a thing. but I havent gave up on that one yet...but maybe your right Vera...he may not have been prosecuted at all. What do you mean ....

                    "NBrady maybe a perusal of similar records as her father but in the Newcastle area will show up something" ?

                    mb
                    Last edited by Mbrady; 02-05-15, 00:34.

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                    • #50
                      Vera

                      I know of several cases - one as recent as the 1950s - where the father kept the children out of pure spite and dumped them on his relatives. He didn't really want the children, just didn't want HER to have them.

                      In one case (may have been on GR or even on here) the child had been told his mother was dead. In fact, she lived into her 80s. In another that I know of personally, the children were told that their mother had left because she didn't want them and if she tried to take them in the street they were to run away because she was going to drown them. In fact, the father had been so abusive to the mother that she was in hospital for many months and unable to do anything. When she did turn up and try to get them they ran away from her.

                      My point is..in the 1930s, men ruled the world. Women/mothers had very few rights and certainly had no legal rights to their children, so I would not assume, as I said, that she just callously abandoned her baby. It doesn't look as if she ever had any more children or even married. We only know one side of the story.

                      OC

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                      • #51
                        I would really like to know when they registered the birth. I suspect it was registered twice - once as a married couple in the usual way, then reregistered once she had found out about the bigamy.

                        Incidentally - a child born in a bigamous marriage is NOT legally illegitimate if one party to the marriage did not know they were committing bigamy.

                        OC

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                        • #52
                          I've been fishing and Thomas B Humble and Annie H Conroy had a daughter in 1921 in Newcastle

                          got to go to bed will look for more stuff tomorrow
                          Last edited by JudithM; 02-05-15, 13:14. Reason: removed name of possible living person

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                          • #53
                            Hmm maybe I worded it badly, but I have no evidence at all she "callously abandoned her baby" I really don't think this at all. Like I said I'm sure she had her reasons...what I meant was in today society where certain taboos from the 30's really arent taboos anymore, it would be a lot less likely to happen. especially with the likes of social media, etc...

                            They registered the birth in Jan 26th 1934.. this was 5 months after they were married. 4 weeks after he was born,,

                            I'm on touch with C A H's grandson Val, he lives in america and we've exchanged many emails. He said his grandma never mentioned anything about this ever, and he also asked whats left of the family and they know nothing either. But we both agree its 100% his grandmother... it went something like...

                            "Mike, at first I was hoping we were related...but family scandal, this is even better"!! haha yanks eh

                            Goodnight, mb
                            Last edited by JudithM; 02-05-15, 13:15. Reason: removed name of possibly living person

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                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Mbrady View Post
                              Nancy & Tommy were married in the local registry office in August of 1933. Their son, (my uncle) was born 4 months later, The scenario i think... this was a rush marriage..." we better get married here" because of scandal reasons OC has outlined. A full 5months later they both registered the birth with their own second names, and different address. I've checked electral registers and Nancy husband never moves away from that address until his death. She was only 19 and wasn't on the register but her family moves from the address she gave on the BC that same year. Maybe Annie showed up kicking off and Nancy and all her family moved away...so many scenarios one can only guess?

                              Thomas Brady married for a 3rd time in 1944, and his bride later came out with, he married her bigamist, and he got prosecuted for it...even said he did time for it. I've had the local records out HUGE book binder things full of divorces and I couldnt find a thing. but I havent gave up on that one yet...but maybe your right Vera...he may not have been prosecuted at all. What do you mean ....

                              "NBrady maybe a perusal of similar records as her father but in the Newcastle area will show up something" ?

                              mb


                              I will PM you as I am referring to recent past

                              Vera
                              Last edited by vera2013; 02-05-15, 01:36.

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                              • #55
                                OC

                                That is a terrible scenario you describe. Spite with the law on their side.

                                My parents married in 1930. I wasn't born in that decade but I can't see my mother being ruled especially when it came to her children although I'm sure there was great dependence on the male.

                                Vera

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                                • #56
                                  I've checked electral registers and Nancy husband never moves away from that address until his death

                                  Are you aware he popped over the the USA in 1929 Out in February returned in May

                                  Vera

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                                  • #57
                                    Yes, sorry, I was aware of that Vera..that was before his first marriage...its where I think he met his first wife tbh..I meant post second marriage.

                                    mb

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                                    • #58
                                      Women had few rights up until possibly the 1960's regarding children and keeping a roof over their head. It's quite possible the husband said you can go but you're not taking the child, or she had nowhere to go. In those days getting a room with a baby never mind a flat or house would have been neigh on impossible and if there was no family willing to take her in she had no choice.

                                      It's also possible she had post natal depression and may have been hospitalised. She may or may not have tried to go home but circumstances had changed and she wasn't allowed to return.



                                      Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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                                      • #59
                                        my Nan had her first child before she married so she registered him after the marriage, so it looked like he wasn't illigitimate, he never knew his real date of Birth not as late as your one though.

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