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Henry Goldsmith Capp / Clark b:1826/27 Tuddenham Suffolk and parents

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    Henry Goldsmith Capp / Clark b:1826/27 Tuddenham Suffolk and parents

    I have beern trying to find out where my 2 x G Grandfather Henry was Born/Baptised/Christened but am struggling to find the exact informationrequired, as I would like, if possible obtain a baptism/birth certificate for him. Am I right in thinking that this is not available online? I have found the relevant information on Ancestry but there is no digitised copy of these documents.
    I have also found a possible marriage for his parents Henry (or Henery) Goldsmith and Elizabeth Capp/Copp or Clarke - Is it right that sometimes the mans' name wasn't used as a surname after marriage for some reason?
    Any insight into the above would be gratefully received.


    #2
    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    Civil registration of births, marriages and deaths was only introduced in 1837, so you won't be able to get a birth certificate for your ancestor. You will need to consult parish register entries for a baptism record.
    Which area of the country? The registers of some churches have been digitised and are online.

    Jay
    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 13-11-14, 15:41.
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    Comment


      #3
      https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSKC-NVK

      This is his baptism. It seems as if his mother wasn't married.

      She had another son also baptised at Tuddenham.

      https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7BN-2TY

      Moggie

      Comment


        #4
        Hello Jay

        Many many thanks for the reply to my post the information provided was very welcome. Henry Goldsmith Clark was born in Suffolk. Any clues as to who may have these registers online I've tried Ancestry but havn't had any luck. At least now I know a birth certificate is out of the picture!

        Julie

        Comment


          #5
          Hello Moggie a BIG thank you for the reply to my post. Any information is of great help - I'm determined to get to the bottom of this Goldsmith/Clark business!

          Julie

          Comment


            #6
            You could request a copy of the images from the baptismal registers from Family Search via Photoduplication

            https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/...ation_Services

            STG
            Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

            Comment


              #7
              I agree with Moggie - based on the information in the familysearch transcript, it seems his mother was unmarried at the times of these births.

              Do you have a copy of the marriage certificate for your ancestor Henry? If so, what name is recorded for his father?

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


                #8
                Did he marry Ann Nunn in Dec 1852 Mildenhall ref 4a 979? I thought this may be him in 1861? -
                http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/87...l=ReturnRecord
                Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                  Did he marry Ann Nunn in Dec 1852 Mildenhall ref 4a 979? I thought this may be him in 1861? -
                  http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/87...l=ReturnRecord
                  And I think this COULD be him & brother William in 1841
                  http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/89...l=ReturnRecord

                  and the same family in 1851
                  http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/88...l=ReturnRecord

                  Using the name Goldsmith
                  Mrs Thomas Mace was Elizabeth Cap Doe before her marriage - was she an elder sister of the 2 boys????

                  In your opening post you asked about men and their names post marriage:
                  I have found that sometimes illegitimate children were brought up using and referred to with the surname of the relatives or step-father etc who cared for them. At marriage, sometimes they began to use birth/baptismal surname instead.

                  Were you thinking along these lines when you asked the question? (Probably it's me chasing after red herrings!)

                  Jay
                  Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 16-11-14, 12:16.
                  Janet in Yorkshire



                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Scrap that!
                    Elizabeth Cap Doe was bp 1823, d/o John & Elizabeth Doe. (familysearch)

                    A John Doe mar an Elizabeth Clark in Nov 1813 (familysearch)
                    A John Doe mar Eliz Capp in April 1816 - I suspect this couple were the parents of Elizabeth Cap(p) Doe. (familysearch)
                    There were also a Henry Thomas (bp 1830) & William (bp 1835) sons of John & Thomas Doe. (familysearch)
                    That would explain the 1851 census relationships of Elizabeth Mace & Henry & Thomas, but not the GOLDSMITH connection.
                    *retires from thread with a headache*

                    Jay
                    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 16-11-14, 12:43.
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Just an aside - I have done a lot of transcribing for villages and small towns and have found that a surname is very often used as a middle name for an illegitimate child. Sometimes this has been the mother's mother's maiden name but in many many more this has not been the case and I suspect this is probably the real name of the father either by admission of the mother or by pressure from the vicar.
                      Kat
                      https://www.pinterest.co.uk/katarzyna1234/my-own-cards/

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                        And I think this COULD be him & brother William in 1841
                        http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/89...l=ReturnRecord

                        and the same family in 1851
                        http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/88...l=ReturnRecord

                        Using the name Goldsmith
                        Mrs Thomas Mace was Elizabeth Cap Doe before her marriage - was she an elder sister of the 2 boys????

                        In your opening post you asked about men and their names post marriage:
                        I have found that sometimes illegitimate children were brought up using and referred to with the surname of the relatives or step-father etc who cared for them. At marriage, sometimes they began to use birth/baptismal surname instead.

                        Were you thinking along these lines when you asked the question? (Probably it's me chasing after red herrings!)

                        Jay
                        Hi
                        I too had come to the conclusion that Elizabeth Mace was a sister of Henry & William. In 1851 they were listed as brothers in law of Thomas Mace & Henry Goldsmith (senior) was listed as Thomas' father in law. Finding out that Thomas Mace had married an Elizabeth Cap Doe was very confusing. I think the couple had a son born before their marriage. A John Mace Doe age 1 week was buried at Tuddenham St Mary on 9th Feb 1840.
                        I think I have found Elizabeth's baptism which fits in with her age on the census.

                        Name: Elizabeth Ann Cap Doe

                        Gender: Female
                        Christening Date: 24 Sep 1820
                        Christening Place: TUDDENHAM ST MARY,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND
                        Father's Name: John Doe
                        Mother's Name: Elizabeth

                        Henry Goldsmith & Elizabeth Capp/Clark ??? may have had another son. There is a burial at Tuddenham for a
                        Charles Goldsmith Clark infant on 16th Feb 1832.

                        This thread caught my eye because my direct ancestors lived in Tuddenham & the nearby village of Herringswell for nearly 200 years & I have been there several times.

                        I think maybe finding out a bit more about Henry Goldsmith senior could be useful. He was a widower in 1851, age 79 soldier/pensioner born Herringswell.
                        He died the following year & was buried at Tuddenham on 9th March 1852 age 82 making his year of birth c 1770.

                        I found this on The National Archives site. I don't know if the dates refer to him personally or the record collection.
                        These records are also on Findmypast but I haven't got any credits left to look at them. They may contain very little extra information.
                        Moggie


                        View at The National Archives for free


                        WO 97/691/2
                        HENRY GOLDSMITH
                        Born HERENSWELL, Suffolk (I think this should be HERRINGSWELL)

                        Served in 56th Foot Regiment
                        Discharged aged 39
                        1799-1817
                        The National Archives, Kew



                        Comment


                          #13
                          As Essex Regiment - 44th & 56th Foot 21 Jul 1799 27 Apr 1817 discharged being worn out! he was in the East Indies 1805- Sept 1817. Come out wit £1817.00 all but £1 in lieu of articles not delivered in kind...

                          Not other info to help as i can see, just 2 pages and another blank
                          Elaine

                          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Bit more, about 39 yrs of age, miller by trade, was in Holland 1799. sorry is 3 pages with 1 blank
                            Elaine

                            Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                            http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                            http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Elaine View Post
                              As Essex Regiment - 44th & 56th Foot 21 Jul 1799 27 Apr 1817 discharged being worn out! he was in the East Indies 1805- Sept 1817. Come out wit £1817.00 all but £1 in lieu of articles not delivered in kind...

                              Not other info to help as i can see, just 2 pages and another blank
                              That's brilliant Elaine. That was an awful lot of money in 1817, I wonder if he left a will?

                              I just found a burial at Tuddenham for an Elizabeth Clarke age 55 on 18th July 1838. If she was the mother of Charles Goldsmith Clark died 1832 she would have been about 48/49 when he was born.
                              Moggie

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Is William in Durham 1871 and 1861

                                RG10; Piece: 4991; Folio: 24; Page: 42 Born Tuddenham

                                http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/76...l=ReturnRecord

                                RG 9; Piece: 3761; Folio: 17; Page: 30 born Mildenhall

                                http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/87...l=ReturnRecord
                                Elaine

                                Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Elaine View Post
                                  Is William in Durham 1871 and 1861

                                  RG10; Piece: 4991; Folio: 24; Page: 42 Born Tuddenham

                                  http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/76...l=ReturnRecord

                                  RG 9; Piece: 3761; Folio: 17; Page: 30 born Mildenhall

                                  http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/87...l=ReturnRecord
                                  Not sure if that is the right William Clark.
                                  This looks like his marriage, not sure which one he married.
                                  http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...=try&h=5559209

                                  Moggie
                                  Last edited by maudarby; 16-11-14, 22:41.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    There's some Goldsmith Clark registrations in Durham, the boys seem to have both named a son Charles but it's getting a bit late, night night
                                    Elaine

                                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                                      Not sure if that is the right William Clark.
                                      This looks like his marriage, not sure which one he married.
                                      http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...=try&h=5559209

                                      Moggie
                                      I think he married Mary Ann Gilman.
                                      There's a Mary Ann Gilman on the same page as the Goldsmiths in 1851, a servant next door.
                                      Maybe she died & William remarried to an Elizabeth before 1861.
                                      Moggie

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        We could do with Julie coming back and telling us a little more about later developments in her family. We need to know whether or not we are on the right track.

                                        Jay
                                        Janet in Yorkshire



                                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                        Comment

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