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Yet more will questions....

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  • #21
    Libby

    If this will was properly probated, then Elizabeth Ariel's children already had a good whack of inheritance when their mother died and it looks to me as if their father resented that.

    I may be very wrong, but I think there was a big fiddle going on here.

    However, as EA's will was intestate then the stuff her children inherited from their grandmother would still be theirs!

    Does anyone know where the admon accounts are filed? I know they have to be offered up with the probate papers, to close the admon, but I have never seen any final accounts. I'd love to see these!!!!!

    OC

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    • #22
      OC....is that on the will somwhere???

      No can't see it.

      The bottom of Elizabeth Naylor's will..

      " Proved at London 15th January 1830 before the Judge by the oath of Elizabeth Ariel wife of Myles Ariel the daughter the sole Executrix to whom admon was granted having been first sworn duly to administer."

      Don't know if that helps.

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      • #23
        No, as I say, I have never seen any final accounts.

        An executor is SUPPOSED to file final accounts when the will has been completely administered, but there doesn't seem to be any official follow up to ensure that final accounts have been rendered.

        And of course, in some cases, it could take 40 years to finally close an estate, depending on the terms of the will.

        OC

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        • #24
          Well OC.....all I know is that after this, the family sort of imploded.

          Children of Elziabeth Naylor and Myles Ariel

          Elizabeth Naylor Ariel(1817) married Henry Farr and died in Wales 1867.

          David kikrby Ariel (1818) died in Barbados 1838.

          Myles Kirkby Ariel (1819) married Emily Weaver in 1848, came to Australia in 1853 and promptly disappeared leaving Emily and three children here.

          Agatha Ariel (1822) married Edward Clark in 1839 (brother of her father's secong wife), divorced 1845 and never seen again.

          Mary Eyre Ariel (1834) was baptised 1835 and lived with her stepmother,Lucretia Clark Ariel, after the death of her father, Myles in 1840.
          Mary was "rebaptised" at St Andrews Clifton in 1851.

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          • #25
            Libby

            I don't want to cast aspersions on the Ariels, but you can see how easy it would be to fiddle a will if you had the mind to do it (and had a few solicitors on your side, too)

            "Papa, did Mama leave me anything in her will?"

            "No, daughter dear, I am afraid she did not, as she did not leave a will. Never mind, my dear daughter, does not Papa provide you with everything you need?"

            OC

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
              Kite

              When my mum died, we discovered with horror that she had not actually signed her will, although it had been properly witnessed.

              We had no problems getting probate, although her solicitor (in whose presence she "signed" the will, lol) said he would be happy to make a statement of her intent, in the event of any problems.

              OC
              I don't understand.
              Do you mean she made a mark of some sort on the paper or she did not write anything on the will?

              The witnesses are supposed to witness the signature so I assume she must have made some mark.
              Cheers
              Guy
              Guy passed away October 2022

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              • #27
                Yes, OC.....except that Papa also popped off the perch soon after marrying Lucretia Clark....so little Mary was the only one left at home.

                She lived with Lucretia until Lucretia died...

                Wonder if Lucretia left a will???


                Back soon.........

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                • #28
                  Guy

                  No, she made no mark on the paper at all!

                  The solicitor recalled that she had picked up the pen to sign and had then started chatting to him and put the pen down.

                  He "thought" she had signed, and pushed it to the witnesses, (clerks) who duly signed and left the office.

                  He was very red-faced about it all, as was my father, who had received a copy of the unsigned will and filed it carefully away after checking all was correct.

                  I have to say my mum could talk the hind leg off a donkey - perhaps the solicitor had gone into a coma!

                  OC

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                  • #29
                    So in other words she did not actually leave a valid will and died intestate.

                    If anyone had contested the will it would not have stood up as it could have been argued that she had changed her mind or had second thoughts at the last minute.

                    A will must be signed in front of witnesses
                    The witnesses must sign to say they have seen the testator sign their name on the will.

                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

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                    • #30
                      Guy

                      The solicitor and the probate office both said that her intent was very clear and therefore the will was allowed to proceed. It was a very straightforward will - a mirror will to that of my father.

                      Perhaps if it had been more complicated the probate office would have been a bit more awkward about things. As it stood, there was very little point in anyone challenging it.

                      In fact I have heard of cases where someone has instructed a solicitor to draw up a will, but died before they were able to sign it. The will was valid as there was a clear intent at the time of instructing the solicitor.

                      OC

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                      • #31
                        Unfortunately intent does not make a will valid, unless the testator dies before being able to sign.

                        The law is very clear on the subject and I am afraid your mum's will failed on two grounds.
                        First it was not signed
                        Second the testators signature was not witnessed.

                        There have been many cases which create the precedent in law
                        Mathews v. Warner, 4 Ves. jun. 186; and 5 Ves. jun. 23.
                        Coles v Trecothick, 9 Ves. jun. 249
                        Walker V. Walker, 1 meri. Rep. 503.

                        The situation where a will is drawn up but the testator dies before being able to sign is completely different and this too has been tested in court.
                        Baillie v. Mitchell, in Prerog. Court 1805.
                        Cheers
                        Guy
                        Guy passed away October 2022

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