Catholic marrying in a C of E?

[Janet]

OC

Padraig does indeed translate to Patrick as Padraig is the gaelic for Patrick, but I was not so sure about Padraig/Patrick translating to Peter in English. Peter does mean "Rock" and is part of a latin derivation from Petrus/Petroc and from the New Testament, "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church" etc.

Peter is not as popular a name in Ireland for some reason, and I have to say I was not sure of the Gaelic name for Peter, but I did not think it was Padraig.

Having just written above, Phadraig is one name I have found for Peter but on a website for Irish names I have found that Peter is Peadar in Gaelic, and the meaning is aramaic for "rock", the name given to St. Simon by Christ, so although the use of Peter as a non gaelic substitute for Patrick was supposed to be common, I am not totally convinced. I am more inclined to the theory that Peter sounded Catholic, but also sounded English, and therefore more acceptable than Patrick when coming to a country like England.

http://www.ireland-information.com/heraldichall/irishboysnames.htm

Janet

[Olde Crone Holden]

That's interesting Janet.

Another Gaelic form, used as a very early English name, was Peder, or Pederic.

I think you can see how all the versions of this name derive from a common Gaelic root - Pederic to Phadraig in Irish Gaelic and both back to their own colloquial versions of Peter.

Of course, those who changed their names from Patrick to Peter probably werent aware of the gaelic root word, but I wonder if they just made the translation when made aware that the English Saint Peter was the Irish Saint Patrick!

OC

[Janet]

Oc

It's like all these discussions on here, when you start looking at something, you think you know about, up pops some more information that sets you thinking on another track, and I was quite surprised at what came up when I started hunting for Padraig and Peter, and yes I do not think our forebears were thinking about the implications gaelicwise when they changed their names like that from Patrick to Peter or other names. Looking at all my Irish names, and I have several hundred only 3 are Peter and my OH has no Peter at all in his Irish background.

Janet

[Olde Crone Holden]

Janet

I have been desperately trying to think of another common Irish name which is often "translated" into English...but I can't!!

I am not au fait with Irish Catholic Saints, but think I remember that Saint Peter took Christianity to Ireland in the 5th(?) century, which would make Peter an Irish name, not an English name (if you see what I mean!).

I agree with you, you think you know something but on checking it, other avenues open up and you finish up miles from where you started, seeing things from a completely different angle.

OC

[Harrys mum]

It could be something as simple as wanting the same first initial while not sounding too Irish.

Saves relearning your signature. I have yet to find an Irish rellie who could not write. Mine were poor farmers, but maybe education was more available where they came from???

[JBee]

Looking at RC baptisms today - I came across an entry for a couples child - not the family I was looking up!!!!

it said that the child was baptised but not christened due to their not being able to find good godparents!!! - (can't remember exact wording) but was surprised at the differential between baptism and christening!!!

[Olde Crone Holden]

JBee

I think we had a long thread about this once before and decided that baptism dedicates a child's soul to God,(spiritual) whereas a christening takes the child into the body of the church (temporal). God parents are needed for the temporal bit!

I think it is possibly only the RC church which now makes such a fine distinction.

OC

[Harrys mum]

The Catholic church in Australia certainly doesn't take that stand......it could be just a local priest doing his own thing.

When a child is baptised, any confirmed catholic can be Godparents, even the child's own parents.

When an adult is baptised they have sponsers (someone who has helped them through the process) as they are old enough to look after their own spiritual life.

Any person who has been baptised into another Christian denomination (C of E, Lutheran, Uniting, etc) is never "rebaptised", but is accepted into the church as a member.
We believe in "one baptism for the removal of sins" as said in the Creed.
Even a lay person can baptise a person in an emergency.
I well remember learning in school that children who were not baptised could not enter Heaven (a teaching long since trashed). As quite a few of our friends were not of any religion, all of us Catholic kids would grab our friends and baptise them on a regular basis.
Brings back great memories.

Hope that helps.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Libby

It wasn't just the RC church that believed an unbaptised child could not enter heaven.

My great aunt adored me and my brother and would happily have died for us. But she was a very religious woman and it bothered her that we had not been baptised. She told me that I would go to Hell.

My parents were furious with her for upsetting me but she would NOT back down - I can remember her shaking and weeping and saying "But it's true! It's true!"

OC

[Janet]

OC

St Patrick was a Roman Britain born Christian Missionary who at 16 was captured by Irish raiders and taken as a slave to Ireland somewhere around second half of the 5th century. He is credited as THE saint for Ireland. Of course there are many others, but he is the Patron Saint for Ireland and commemorated and venerated all over the world every 17th March.There are many legends about him, such as getting rid of snakes in Ireland and you never see a snake in Ireland, and using the clover leaf to describe the Trinity. However, little is really known about him and most of what you read is not proven. I have walked up his mountain of Croagh Patrick, where he is supposed to have trhrown all the snakes into the water below. It is the most wonderful walk, if hard on the old knees, no I do not mean walking up on your knees, but the last half mile or so is scree and its murderous!

Libby

The Irish were well educated, in fact they had schools for the masses long before England. I have written about this before. My lot were educated by the Christian Brothers from about 1830 as were many Irish people. Late 1700's and early 1800's they had the hedge schools and you can google hedge schools to find out more. My lot were only bakers, blacksmiths and farm labourers but their style of writing was unbelievable. I have seen an example of one of them in an Irish newspaper, a 19 year old apprentice baker writing in the vein of James Joyce. Ireland is the country of song, ballad and storytelling and they have many authors of which they can be proud.

The RC church everywhere today is a very different church to yesteryear, but sadly things did go on back in the late 1800's early 1900's that would never happen today. But that is the same about life in general.

Janet

[Olde Crone Holden]

Janet

As I said before, I think I know something, then look it up and find I don't, lol!

After I posted about St Peter I thought to myself "or was it St Patrick?"

I'm going to bed!

OC