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  • Unsure of research, bindings of watchet

    My great grandad john winkworth binding, census says born in watchet abt 1876. I have his death and marriage Certs. Birth cert proved wrong as dad says William and I know from marriage that his dad was Alfred. I know that this so far is correct (ive found another possible birth I can order).
    My problem is that I am having doubts about the information I've taken from others on ancestry relating to john winkworth. The father on several other trees is Alfred, a sailor from watchet, however johns marriage cert has his father Alfred as a collier. I believe the sailor Alfred was a sailor until death. Have I just been following others blindly or could it possible that the cert got the occupation of Alfred wrong.
    i know I have to get more Certs, hopefully john correct birth, to get to the bottom of this. Just wondered what others think of the situation and of believing others research on ancestry.
    thank you.

  • #2
    Originally posted by currie1972 View Post
    Just wondered what others think of the situation and of believing others research on ancestry.
    A good piece of advice is NEVER trust anything you find on Ancestry trees! Use the information as a guide and then prove/disprove it yourself - but don't accept it blindly.

    Have you tried following your John Winkworth Binding in the census and if so have you found him both before and after marriage?
    Elaine







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    • #3
      My advice is only ever to use other Ancestry trees as a "hint" of a possible avenue for you to research, and even then treat with extreme caution - never take any link or fact from another tree unless you can see the sources that have been used to support that information and have satisfied yourself that it is correct.

      I did some research recently for someone where there are 6 trees on Ancestry detailing his family line going back 300 years- and they are all completely wrong before about 1885. One user had published it, and 5 others have just copied the incorrect information. The actual error was a simple one to spot with a little of bit of research, but no-one seemed to have bothered.
      Last edited by AntonyM; 13-02-14, 17:59.
      I am a professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, based in Buckinghamshire - please contact me for any help/advice or research via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
      Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

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      • #4
        Agree with the above - Ancestry trees (and any other trees for that matter) are useful hints, nothing more.

        In your position, I would trace both John Bindings back on census to birth and see what that gives you. I wouldn't get too hung up about father's names either - not all marriage certs tell the truth about that (or birth certs either, lol!)

        OC

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        • #5
          This is probably his birth reg, with mistranscriptions!

          Births Mar 1877

          BENDING John Wentworth Williton 5c/313

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          • #6
            I endorse all the above comments. Have you tried to find a possible Winkworth surname in John's ancestry? Usually, but not always, when a surname is given as a middle name the surname will feature in the family ancestry, though sometimes it's a name given in respect of an employer or family friend, say.

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            • #7
              Oooh, well found Susan!

              I agree, the Winkworth name will almost certainly have some significance.

              OC

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              • #8
                There are a few records for Winkworth's in Somerset, mostly in the Keynsham or Bath areas.

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                • #9
                  You are all marvellous and a huge help. Thank you Susan, I had not found that one and it looks very promising. You may have just saved me ordering another wrong cert. Where census is concerned he is lodging with his future wife's (Emily hall) family in 1901 and the next census their married. Before that I've not found a definite, just know he was a railway plate layer and born watchet, Somerset. It all seemed to fit with the family of sailors with dad called Alfred. Will take a fresh look at census records.
                  My mother mentioned something about her grandfather (I think it was) trained to be a teacher but gave it up because he didn't get a first. Not sure if there's anyway of looking into that.
                  i have tried searching for marriages between winkworth and binding because I thought it an odd middle name but not found anything. There are definitely no winkworths in the current tree, so that may be another indication that it is all wrong.
                  thank you for all your help, I feel more positive to move forward now.

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                  • #10
                    He does seem to fit with that family where the father is a mariner doesn't he. In case this family turns out to be yours and you are later looking for the marriage of Alfred and Elizabeth, it might be worth hanging onto this, as I think Alfred may have been mis-transcribed as Alfred Bindon. I say that because in 1891 Elizabeth's father is with them and he is James Taylor.
                    Marriages July-Sept 1875 Williton ref 5c 418 - Elizabeth Taylor to a possible Alfred Bindon. Annie Bryant and John Mildrem also on the page.
                    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                    • #11
                      Thank you Chrissie. I have Alfred's birth certificate and his parents marriage. I have also found possible records for his death, marriage and probate, lots really. Would be a real shame if all this is the wrong family and I had no doubts until I saw John's marriage cert and Alfred's occupation as collier.
                      I'm trying to find alternative possible families right now and will definitely be ordering the birth certificate Susan found. Looking over things today I read through John Winkworth's obituary and among his chief mourners were his son Frank but also another Frank Binding from Watchet. I would assume this to be a brother. In the mariner family I currently have there is a brother Francis who would still have been alive when John died. The only thing I have found so far was a 1881 census. Its the same family as I currently have and Alfred and Elizabeth do have a son John W Binding age 4. I'm still not finding any other census records that could mean him not being their son. I'll just keep ploughing through records and get that birth certificate ordered asap.

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                      • #12
                        Hope it's the right cert, currie, it does look probable. Is the marriage cert you have a copy, or the original. I'm just thinking if a copy - sailor could have been read as Collier if the handwriting wasn't easy to read.

                        I searched census records last night and the only ones I found which looked likely were the ones you mention, father a sailor, and the 1881 with John W age 4. I noticed Binding was often mistranscribed as Bindon, perhaps the local accent confused!!!
                        Last edited by ; 14-02-14, 13:37.

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                        • #13
                          Not sure how it works really it was ordered from Gen Reg Office online, certified copy. Is that what you mean by a copy? Does that mean that a detailed register is kept and when you order a copy a certificate is written out?
                          The only other birth I found is John Binding dec 1876, williton. I think your looks more likely because of the middle name and there doesn't seem to be an actual John Wentworth Bending. Im very hopeful and grateful

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                          • #14
                            Not sure how it works really it was ordered from Gen Reg Office online, certified copy. Is that what you mean by a copy? Does that mean that a detailed register is kept and when you order a copy a certificate is written out?
                            This explains copy certs, currie. http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazi...topic7325.html

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                            • #15
                              It sounds like there could have been a transcription error at some point in the process. The only original signed entry for a marriage is held by the local registration office, or the church in which it took place (and in that case is then usually passed on to the county archive for safe keeping).

                              If asked, local offices will usually provide certificates which are direct copies of the original entry, unless the books are too fragile for the copying process, in which case they may be written out by hand. If you phone them and explain, they may check the original entry to confirm the occupation, without charging for issuing another copy.
                              I am a professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, based in Buckinghamshire - please contact me for any help/advice or research via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                              Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thank you both, part of my original query was weather an occupation error could have occurred on the certificate and I can see now how that could be possible. It would be nice if its right, I've got quite attached to the pictures and stories of my potential ancestors.

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                                • #17
                                  Just ordered the certificate and a possible b match for Emily Hall. Will let you know how it pans out. I hate waiting a week to find out:( but to tight to pay for priority.

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                                  • #18
                                    Ooh yes, do let us know. You're not being tight Currie, but sensible, and sometimes cert's arrive within a few days. Anyway, fingers crossed.

                                    I've been looking through the British Library Newspaper Database, and there's a number of Binding's mentioned, so once you know you are on track you maybe able to put a little meat on the bones.
                                    Last edited by ; 14-02-14, 16:25.

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                                    • #19
                                      Too late now, but I have twice been refused a direct copy (photocopy) of a cert from a local Registrar, on the grounds that the registers were too fragile to open out fully for photcopying, but in both cases, the registrar very kindly sent me a tracing of the signature (which was what I was really after), so no doubt they would do the same for an occupation where there was doubt.

                                      OC

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                                      • #20
                                        Hello, my certificates came today and although middle name is written Wentworth the father is Alfred Binding, Seaman and mother Elizabeth Taylor. I'm so pleased and thank you Susan, I probably wouldn't have found that record. Also the Emily Hall birth certificate is also the right one and confirms her mother maiden name.
                                        So, thanks again all for you assistance. I'm going to get back to my tree tonight and see where I go next.

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