Honora (Anna/Hannah) McDonough -where are you?

[vera2013]

Have been having a look Jay

Not seeing a likely marriage for a Miller to a McDonough.

I have what may be James Miller's brother John (b 1871 Newcastle) married to Minnie (Chapman). They too are living in the same street in Cowpen but not seeing any link to them and the McDonough family.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1901&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=john&gsln=miller&msbdy=1871&msbpn__ftp=Newcastle+Upon+Tyne%2c+Northumberland%2c+England&msbpn=86564&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5278%7c86564%7c0%7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=326&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cp=11&pcat=35&fh=2&h=30857961&recoff=&ml_rpos=3

John and James are with their father (Joseph) in 1891 in Westoe South Shields, Minnie is a visitor. It is a mistranscribe on Ancestry.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1891&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=john&gsln=miller&msbdy=1871&msbpn__ftp=Newcastle+Upon+Tyne%2c+Northumberland%2c+England&msbpn=86564&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5278%7c86564%7c0%7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=326&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cp=11&pcat=35&fh=12&h=2219550&recoff=&ml_rpos=13

Will take another look to see what may turn up.

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thank you for that, Vera. If I could just find James Miller marrying Honour Anybody it would allow me to put Honoria McDonough back on the hob to simmer for a further 12 months!

Jay

[vera2013]

Not found any marriage for an Honora to a James Miller North and South of the River. Seems unusual for a girl to stay in her village, close to her parents and not marry but then James Miller didn't marry Sarah until after Honora was born.

Maybe the cemetery records will give you some info that would reveal a bit more than the death cert.

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

It would have been the town cemetery, I think, and I'm not sure that a record would give a maiden name. Similarly with the death cert - if that had included previous surname, it would already have been ordered!

I am very surprised that the priest buried her as Honour Miller if she and James had not married. James may not have been RC, but Honour Miller is recorded in the burial register of Our Lady & St Wilfrid, which suggests she was.
My granny (Honora/Anna McDonough's sister) was married at S Shields registry office because Grandad was C of E and wouldn't have anything to do with the RC church, but she did marry and the priest (Father Drumgoole) knew that. (It was the spiritual welfare of the children he "worried" about and was constantly at the door. He was the parish priest for many decades and knew all about his flock.)
Of course, Mrs Miller may not have been my lady, or James may have already had a wife?????
Interesting that you found James's brother & family in 1901 living in Crofton Street, which would have been near Crofton Terrace where the McDonough's lived. By 1911 my Honoria's sister & family were in Crofton Street, along with Honoria's widowed mother, the father having died at 13 Crofton Terrace in 1903.
The youngest 2 children of brother Joseph Miller were born in Blyth c1898 - 1900. I wonder if this is how James & Honour met??
A great shame that James Miller & Honour didn't have a child - the bp register could have been very revealing. There doesn't seem to have been an RC bp for baby Hannah, who was registered as Miller.
Isn't it aggravating to not have that missing piece which would confirm one way or the other if I'm on the right track? :( I don't mind my theory being knocked down - it's the NOT knowing which is frustrating!)

Thankyou for trying, Vera.

Jay

[vera2013]

This must be very frustrating for you Jay. As you say, you would be happy just to disprove your findings although I have a gut feeling tis her. Does that count. I agree with your possible scenario that James' brother John married and settled in Cowpen, James visited and met Honora. Sadly Honora died very young and childless so no leads with a bc there.

I would delve into that death record a bit more and ring the Northumberland Cemetery people. If she was unmarried at the time of her death they might just have recorded her maiden name.

The only other thing I can think of is that James was not named Miller but then, perhaps not, as his brother married under that name. I did look for a marriage for father Joseph and wife Sarah but couldn't see one for them either but difficult as Joseph was an auctioneer and they moved around a bit.

I keep hoping my great grandmother Mary Jane will come out of the woodwork but from census I gather she was born between 1845-55 in Armagh, she moved to Scotland without family and married in at least four different churches in Glasgow and Paisley according to SP records. I though I had cracked it with a possible brother but then realised because of the span for women to have children back in the day, he could be her father.

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for your opinion, Vera. I feel quite positive that it COULD be my lady, but as usual, will try to keep an open mind until I have a piece of evidence.

Keep digging away at your gt-grandmother - new data comes online every day. Took me over 20 years ( and at least 2 full starts ) to sort out my gt-gt godmother. All I had as a starting point was her marriage cert and it eventually turned out that that was the only time in her life when she used that name, which was her mother's maiden surname.

I wonder in my case, if the church registers would throw any light on the matter. Apart from my grandparents' marriage, I haven't bought the certificates for any of the other siblings and I suppose it's possible they all had a civil ceremony. I thought I had a note of dates for 2 of the girls marrying in the RC church, but I'm not sure now. Perhaps the Millers dispensed with the civil formalities and just had a religious ceremony. Won't be able to get to the record office for a while, but it might be worth a visit.

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

May 2017 update

I still haven't found a James Miller & Honour McDonour marriage, but I have found that there was a child, Sarah Ann Miller (mmn McDonough) born 1895, died 1899 at the age of three.
The parish registers for the family church have records of the baptism and burial of this little girl and the baptism records her parents as James & Honour Donoch Miller.
So, it seems that today I am laying to rest a little girl from my family tree and also her mother. However, I do feel that by recording these sad events I am ensuring that they are not forgotten.

Jay