Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Major Frederick George Hill, OBE and Official Assignee

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Karamazov
    replied
    I haven't forgotten about this thread! I'm still finding TNA fiendishly difficult but have managed to find some early records of David John Jackson Hill which I still need to digest...will post findings and probably more questions here once I've done so. I downloaded an absolutely massive file yesterday which I'm hoping may contain more, but it's going to takes ages to plough through. I'm hoping to make a start on it later today, but more likely Thursday.
    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • annswabey
    replied
    I had a quick look for him too, last week and didn't find him. His file may not have been retained. They were heavily weeded and sometimes there was just nothing left!

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Originally posted by annswabey View Post
    To search for Army Officers records for WW1 at the National Archives is fairly complicated! ...
    There's a FG Hill of RGA, rank of Captain, though, in the WO338 index. His "long number" is 20021. Started to look at the Catalogue for this but it's playing up - taking forever to load.
    Hi Ann,
    Just had a frustrating time!
    Using the long number you've given above, I've followed the instructions on TNA website to then find him in WO339. I've followed the instructions to the letter, namely put an * in the keyword field and entered the long number in the former reference box. This then gives 118 results, which I've ploughed through. None are him, although, (just a fluke I think,) there is a Private F Hill of the Devonshire Regiment but he is obviously not the man you found as in your message above.
    The results i got were mainly medal cards with 20021 coming up pretty frequently as part of a regiment number.

    Any ideas why I'm not finding him?
    Thanks,
    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • annswabey
    replied
    Yes, WO76 is for pre WW1

    Leave a comment:


  • annswabey
    replied
    There's an officers file for Robert Montague Hill as follows

    WO 339/10222
    Description:

    Colonel Robert Montague HILL.

    Royal Garrison Artillery.

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Hi Ann, (and everybody else who's replied)

    After your post #5 above I ventured on the National Archives site for WO76. I didn't find FG but did find a couple of records for his elder brother David John Jackson Hill (9 Oct 1873-8 Nov 1938) so that's a result. I think these may only deal with his early career so there may well be more to find. He went on to serve in WW1, was awarded the CMG and DSO and rose to the rank of Colonel.

    I've now seen the later posts on this thread and I'm glad I posted here first for advice. As others have mentioned, I'm not finding the site easy to navigate so it's reassuring to find I'm not the only one!

    It's also good to know you're the best in the business in this field so I'm tremendously grateful for your ongoing help and advice.

    I might as well also mention the 3rd military brother in this family - Robert Montague Hill (12 June 1872-17 Jul 1934). He was mentioned in despatches, rose to the rank of Lt-Colonel in 1914 and was awarded the CBE in 1919.
    Both DJJ and RM Hill have entries in the online Who Was Who.

    I won't be able to come back to this thread now until sometime on Monday so thanks to everybody who's posted replies so far...I'm sure I'll find records for all three brothers now with all the help that's available here.

    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • annswabey
    replied
    They've written some new "basic" Research Guides. Signposts, I think they call them. Fine for "popular". "simple" records like WW1 service records for example but not much use for the more complicated stuff for which often Research Guides aren't always too helpful. Often it's not obvious which series, even, should be searched and records could be in a number of series.

    Leave a comment:


  • margaretmarch
    replied
    Originally posted by annswabey View Post
    Margaret

    The new "Discovery" search is supposed to simplify searching, but it doesn't!

    Best advice is to read the Research Guide on a particular subject. So the Guide on Officers after 1913 will say something along the lines of what I posted. It's very difficult to explain, in the case of a convoluted search like this one, exactly how to do it!
    Well I certainly haven't found it simple!

    I can't understand why they can't just have an alphabetical index that links you through to the different databases. It seems that the information is all stored in separate 'silos' and there is no interlinking of duplicated information in each 'silo' or even a linking of related databases.

    All I can say is I was hoping you would come along and help on this one as I know you are the 'best in field' on this military stuff

    Margaret

    Leave a comment:


  • annswabey
    replied
    Margaret

    The new "Discovery" search is supposed to simplify searching, but it doesn't!

    Best advice is to read the Research Guide on a particular subject. So the Guide on Officers after 1913 will say something along the lines of what I posted. It's very difficult to explain, in the case of a convoluted search like this one, exactly how to do it!

    Leave a comment:


  • margaretmarch
    replied
    Originally posted by annswabey View Post
    To search for Army Officers records for WW1 at the National Archives is fairly complicated! They are either in TNA reference WO374 or WO339. Some are name indexed in the Catalogue but lots just have surname and initial (often only one initial, even if men had middle names). There is an index in WO338 which often gives full name, rank and regiment. WO338 is downloadable as a Digital Microfilm (they are BIG files!). The index will also give a "long number" and it's this which identifies a particular man. There are also some men's numbers prefixed with the letter P which mean that the man served after 1922 and therefore his records should still be with the MOD.

    There's a FG Hill of RGA, rank of Captain, though, in the WO338 index. His "long number" is 20021. Started to look at the Catalogue for this but it's playing up - taking forever to load.
    Well Ann - I'm glad you say it's complicated - it makes me feel less inadequate I do find the whole TNA site hard to navigate and find stuff generally. I'm assuming this is because it is essentially a site for academics rather than us ordinary mortals and occasional visitors.

    Margaret

    Leave a comment:


  • annswabey
    replied
    To search for Army Officers records for WW1 at the National Archives is fairly complicated! They are either in TNA reference WO374 or WO339. Some are name indexed in the Catalogue but lots just have surname and initial (often only one initial, even if men had middle names). There is an index in WO338 which often gives full name, rank and regiment. WO338 is downloadable as a Digital Microfilm (they are BIG files!). The index will also give a "long number" and it's this which identifies a particular man. There are also some men's numbers prefixed with the letter P which mean that the man served after 1922 and therefore his records should still be with the MOD.

    There's a FG Hill of RGA, rank of Captain, though, in the WO338 index. His "long number" is 20021. Started to look at the Catalogue for this but it's playing up - taking forever to load.

    Leave a comment:


  • margaretmarch
    replied
    Originally posted by AntonyM View Post
    In the probate records on Ancestry there is an entry for a Frederick George Hill of Cable Road, Whitehead, Antrim who died 11 December 1946 - Probate to Terence Champion Hill, retired Army Major, effects (in England) £2118. Does that address fit with what you know ?

    A quick scan of the 1911 census shows Terence Champain Hill as born abt 1908, son of another army major - David John Jackson HILL, living in Hampshire, so it doesn't appear he was a son of Frederick George .....a nephew perhaps ?
    If you get the death cert you might see whether or not he was married.

    Margaret

    Leave a comment:


  • margaretmarch
    replied
    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
    I would like to find out more about his military career but this will be my first venture into British military records so I would really appreciate any guidance, especially as there seem to be a number of possibilities of Frederick, Frederick George and FG Hills. I don't currently have an Individual ancestry subscription but can access Ancestry via my local library. Or would I be better going down the National Archives route? - although once again I would appreciate guidance as to which record(s) refer to "my" man.

    Christine
    All officers records are held at the National Archives so what you are seeing on ancestry I don't think will be him. I did search for him on the TNA site but no results BUT I rarely have success in finding anything on that site so don't take that as definitive.

    Have a look at the Reference Library on FTF as there will be loads of useful links on there for military records.

    Margaret

    Leave a comment:


  • annswabey
    replied
    As far as any Army records for him are concerned, they will be at the National Archives, or still with the MOD. If with MOD they are due to be released sometime soon-ish - they haven't specified when, though!

    You may find him mentioned in Medal records on Ancestry.

    If he started off in the ranks, you may find his attestion on the FindMyPast website.

    Have a look at this brief research guide to find out what the National Archives might hold on his militia service

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...on/militia.htm

    One of the refs quoted in the above is WO76. This is available for download from the National Archives for free (very large files, though!). You'll find WO76 listed under Digital Microfilm, and you then need to find the relevant WO76 reference to fit your man's details. You can then download and plough through it!

    Leave a comment:


  • margaretmarch
    replied
    Here's a link about Official Assignee work http://www.startrungrow.com/informat...sibilities.htm seems to be like a Civil Service job.

    Have a look here about the Royal Garrison Artillery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Garrison_Artillery. Your local library might also be able to help with some reference books.
    Margaret

    Leave a comment:


  • Karamazov
    replied
    Originally posted by AntonyM View Post
    In the probate records on Ancestry there is an entry for a Frederick George Hill of Cable Road, Whitehead, Antrim who died 11 December 1946 - Probate to Terence Champion Hill, retired Army Major, effects (in England) £2118. Does that address fit with what you know ?

    A quick scan of the 1911 census shows Terence Champain Hill as born abt 1908, son of another army major - David John Jackson HILL, living in Hampshire, so it doesn't appear he was a son of Frederick George .....a nephew perhaps ?

    Thank you Antony.
    This is definitely him - David John Jackson Hill was another elder brother who made good via the military and your guess is right - Terence Champain Hill was DJJ Hill's son and FG's nephew.
    Christine

    Leave a comment:


  • AntonyM
    replied
    In the probate records on Ancestry there is an entry for a Frederick George Hill of Cable Road, Whitehead, Antrim who died 11 December 1946 - Probate to Terence Champion Hill, retired Army Major, effects (in England) £2118. Does that address fit with what you know ?

    A quick scan of the 1911 census shows Terence Champain Hill as born abt 1908, son of another army major - David John Jackson HILL, living in Hampshire, so it doesn't appear he was a son of Frederick George .....a nephew perhaps ?
    Last edited by AntonyM; 14-04-13, 14:54.

    Leave a comment:


  • Major Frederick George Hill, OBE and Official Assignee

    I have the following information about Major Frederick George Hill, the son of one of my great grand aunts.
    He was born on June 18, 1877 in Downpatrick. Parents were Robert Hill who was an Inland Revenue Officer at the time and Maggie, nee Hoey.
    In 1881 the family were in Cambus, Clackmannanshire, Scotland but are back in Belfast by 1883.
    In 1900 he was appointed second lieutenant in the Royal Garrison artillery (Antrim artillery) and later the same year was appointed lieutenant. In 1901 (E&W census) he was single, aged 23, a lieutenant in the Antrim Garrison Artillery and living in the household of his older brother Robert Montague Hill (also in the military) at 1 Manor Villas, Calboune, Isle of Wight. In 1902 he was appointed Local Captain In the Antrim Royal Garrison Artillery (militia)
    In 1911 (Irish census) he was living in the West Division of Carrickfergus, Co Antrim, aged 33, single, a captain in the Antrim Regiment R U action list. In 1913, as Capt FG Hill, he was living at "Woodlawn", Carrickfergus. In 1914 he was promoted to major in the Royal Garrison artillery and in 1919 he was appointed OBE in the King's birthday honours list "for valuable services rendered in connection with the war". He relinquished his commission in 1928 but retained the rank of Major.
    At sometime around about 1921 or early 1922, he became the Official Assignee in Belfast. A search of the Belfast Gazette online archives gives a total of 450 hits, with earliest mention of him in the role of official assignee in Belfast being on 6 January 1922 and the last in the Belfast Gazette of 4th October 1946.


    I would like to find out more about his military career but this will be my first venture into British military records so I would really appreciate any guidance, especially as there seem to be a number of possibilities of Frederick, Frederick George and FG Hills. I don't currently have an Individual ancestry subscription but can access Ancestry via my local library. Or would I be better going down the National Archives route? - although once again I would appreciate guidance as to which record(s) refer to "my" man.


    Any other possible information or pointers about him would be appreciated.
    For instance, did he ever marry? Have children?
    Is there any way of finding out when he died, given that it was sometime after Oct 1946 and presumably in Northern Ireland?
    Can I find out more about what the "valuable services" were which led to the OBE award?
    What exactly did the role of official assignee entail?
    Where could I find more info about the Antrim Artillery? And so on....


    Apologies for the length of this post and thanks for reading.
    Christine
    Last edited by Karamazov; 14-04-13, 10:24.
Working...
X