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    Leicester to France and back again

    Have not had this before so asking those in the know, how do you go about tracing French births?

    Have this family 1851, Isabella is the person I am tracing through a marriage (what marriage by the way to Thomas Hurst) as she is quite some lady, have her details and other marriages

    1851 Census.
    Bonners Lane, St. Mary, Leicester.
    Thomas Clay Age 49 Head Married Occupation Warp Hand. Born Leicester
    Louisa Clay Age 45 Wife Married Born Leicester
    George Clay Age 19 Son Unmarried Occupation Warp Hand Born Leicester
    Isabella C. CLAY Age 17 Daughter Unmarried Occupation Fancy Knitter Born Leicester
    Jacques Edward Clay Age 13 Son Occupation Winder Born France.....Lille later census
    Jean Baptiste Clay Age 11 Son Occupation Winder Born France
    Joseph E. J. Clay Age 9 Son Occupation Winder Born France
    Sarah A. O'Connor Clay Age 3 Daughter Born Leicester

    Isabella is a Chapman Clay and the boys J is Jones which is their mother's maiden name

    and also, could a child have a private Catholic christening 1861 if the parents weren't married? the child wasn't expected to live and did die at 2wks old
    Elaine

    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

    #2
    I know nurthing about French records, but wonder if Thomas was asked to go to France by his employer if/when employer set up a factory there, so that Thomas could show the locals how it was done?

    Just a thort.
    Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Elaine View Post
      Have not had this before so asking those in the know, how do you go about tracing French births?

      Have this family 1851, Isabella is the person I am tracing through a marriage (what marriage by the way to Thomas Hurst) as she is quite some lady, have her details and other marriages

      1851 Census.
      Bonners Lane, St. Mary, Leicester.
      Thomas Clay Age 49 Head Married Occupation Warp Hand. Born Leicester
      Louisa Clay Age 45 Wife Married Born Leicester
      George Clay Age 19 Son Unmarried Occupation Warp Hand Born Leicester
      Isabella C. CLAY Age 17 Daughter Unmarried Occupation Fancy Knitter Born Leicester
      Jacques Edward Clay Age 13 Son Occupation Winder Born France.....Lille later census
      Jean Baptiste Clay Age 11 Son Occupation Winder Born France
      Joseph E. J. Clay Age 9 Son Occupation Winder Born France
      Sarah A. O'Connor Clay Age 3 Daughter Born Leicester

      Isabella is a Chapman Clay and the boys J is Jones which is their mother's maiden name

      and also, could a child have a private Catholic christening 1861 if the parents weren't married? the child wasn't expected to live and did die at 2wks old
      French records are arranged by area there is nothing for the whole of France so you need to have an idea where in France to look. Ancestry do have some records of baptisms and marriages in France.

      Margaret

      Comment


        #4
        Definitely worth considering. I had a chappie who was sent by the Coats thread people in Paisley to St Petersburg in the 1890s to run a thread factory. And another who went from Sunderland to Norway in the 1850s to learn about pottery. Two children were born there and he went on to run one of the Sunderland Lustre pottery factories.
        Uncle John

        Comment


          #5
          Have a look here at the records ancestry has http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...F0003A49-int=1

          also here http://www.genealogie.com/v4/genealo...ge.mvc/Welcome

          Margaret

          Comment


            #6
            This is a very useful link: http://archives-departementales.com/

            There are quite a lot of record images available online for free. It helps a lot to be able to read French, since there are not many concessions made to foreign visitors to the sites.

            Christine
            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

            Comment


              #7
              I shall have to get my daughter to help me with the translating
              Thanks everyone
              Elaine

              Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

              http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
              http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

              Comment


                #8
                Found these births which I know are not you timeframe but does beg the question if they maybe had some connections is France??

                Jean-Baptiste-Antoine CLAY
                Place of Origin: Reims, Saint-Timothee
                Father: Antoine CLAY
                Mother: Catherine-Nicole FOUQUET
                Birth Date: 8 déc. 1758 (8 Dec 1758)
                Birth Location: Reims, Saint-Timothee

                ean-Baptiste-Paschal CLAY
                Place of Origin: Reims, Saint-Timothee
                Father: Antoine CLAY
                Mother: Catherine-Nicole FOUQUET
                Birth Date: 24 juin 1760 (24 Jun 1760)
                Birth Location: Reims, Saint-Timothee

                Comment


                  #9
                  Must admit that crossed my mind when I saw it
                  Elaine

                  Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                  http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                  http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    if they are born in lille, you need to figure out which department it is in. then go to the departemental archives website, and navigate to civil registration (1790 something and later, the start is a french revolution date). i don't think you will find the births certs on the net, but you should be able to find the index, like freebmd. after this point i have no experience, but i know you can order the records, i think it like the states, you order them from the local town hall. googling should help you there.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Jacques Edouard CLAY was indeed registered in Lille - I have just seen the original registration record - there are no other CLAY births in Lille for the period 1833-1842 apart from his . Jacques Edouard was born 22/02/1842 (there is a bit of a discrepancy in the birth year here - see below regarding birth year of Jacques Edmond) - at 10 am to Thomas CLAY and Louisa JONES, residing in Lille at No 24 rue Princesse. (For interest Charles de Gaulle was born in this street at No 9 but about 50 years later). One of the witnesses was Guillaume CLAY who is named as the paternal uncle of the child and also residing in Lille.The other witness was Charles LARRAD (that's what the surname looks like anyway). The father and the two witnesses all signed the registration. All three men were tulle workers.

                      Update: Have now found other birth registrations. . They were not in the Lille registers but in the registers of one of its suburbs-Wazemmes. Looks like something happened to Jacques Edouard above and he was replaced by Jacques Edmond below who became known as Jacques Edward (if I've got my sums right - as I said there is a bit of a discrepancy in the birth years/second names of the two Jacques).

                      Wazemmes registers:

                      Parents: Thomas CLAY/Louisa JONES
                      Jacques Edmond CLAY registered 11 Nov 1838
                      Jean-Baptiste CLAY registerd 9 July 1840

                      There is also a Sarah Anne CLAY in the same registers for the same 10 year (1833 -1842 period) - let me know what you think and I will check her out but she just might be an earlier Sarah Anne CLAY who died too and Sarah Anne O'Connor CLAY replaced her

                      Guillaume CLAY turns up again as witness on one of these and this time the name looks like William with the W crossed out and replaced by a G so reads Gilliam - Guillaume being the French equivalent for William
                      Last edited by taffyfrog; 11-05-13, 20:09.
                      CAROLE : "A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You are wonderful, been away for a few days so only replying now. Could I possibly ask for the link because I didn't find that entry and would be very grateful for your help.
                        The Sarah you mentioned, I have Sarah Ann O' Connor Clay born 1847 in Leicester, the last birth I have before that is Joseph Ernest Jones Clay c1842 France from 1851 census, the last birth I know of in Leicester was Emma Sarah death May 1837 if that helps

                        My daughter talked me through one site so only found the birth reg I believe, maybe I am better running this by you, it's as far as I got when looking but the Lille birth, so used what she told me to find this


                        http://www.archivesdepartementales.c...les_decennales

                        Thank you again ;D
                        Last edited by Elaine; 12-05-13, 19:06.
                        Elaine

                        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Here's the actual image for the 1842 birth -hope the link works - on second page at the top - let me know if you can't get it - I think you might just get an image of the book cover - but type in page 735 - aagh... it"s not a Jacques Edward/Edouard or a Joseph Ernest - it's a Joseph Edouard

                          http://www.archivesdepartementales.cg59.fr/?id=viewer&doc=accounts%2Fmnesys_ad59%2Fdatas%2Fir %2FEtat%20civil%2FFRAD059_MI_A_Z_2011_07_01.xml&pa ge_ref=184013&lot_num=1&img_num=1&index_in_visu

                          will send links to others when you're ready
                          Last edited by taffyfrog; 12-05-13, 22:01.
                          CAROLE : "A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK"

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thank you, found it by entering the page number, brilliant, also found how to find the original
                            Last edited by Elaine; 12-05-13, 22:07.
                            Elaine

                            Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                            http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                            http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Glad you found it - worth checking the Wazemmes 'tables décennales' for this period - apart from J. Baptiste (that was p 598 of the registers for the year 1840) and Jacques Edmond (p126 for the year 1838) - think in fact it was the same register for both, there was also Sarah Anne. When you check the Wazemmes tables the registration month might look a bit funny to you - it either said 8bre, 9bre or Xbre (meaning October, November, December). In the same tables there are also another couple of CLAY births but not to your couple but to 'Jean' CLAY (from Shrewsbury) and Ann GILPIN (from Leeds).
                              CAROLE : "A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK"

                              Comment


                                #16
                                That's brilliant, had a look and found the names yesterday but realised the heading below gave me the birth info so will head to Wazemmes again. Thank you very much for looking, they haven's been easy as they use English and French names but no middle names and sometimes Jones. I don't think my rellie married Isabella the daughter and I have completely lost him as she marries another man. They do figure in the papers a lot, they make for some very colourful reading!
                                Elaine

                                Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Can I call on you again please! have found three births and this one

                                  http://www.archivesdepartementales.c...um=1&img_num=1

                                  page 625 but my French is not up to scratch as I found the entry for Susan 1840, assume I am in 1840 looking for it (above link) with a date of 25 Dec ?? can see William Clay clearly but looks like prenomms Sarah=Anne???
                                  Elaine

                                  Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                  http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                  http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Getting a bit better, 21 December 1840...father William, found the index at the beginning of the year, makes it a lot easier:p

                                    that's about it for my French
                                    Elaine

                                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Rundown of info on this - sorry if it looks a bit dry

                                      Registration date : 21 Dec 1840
                                      Father’s name: William CLAY
                                      Father’s age : 31
                                      Father’s birthplace: England
                                      Father’s occupation: tulle maker
                                      Abode : rue de la Jouissance
                                      Mother’s name: Martha PARKINSON
                                      Mother’s birthplace: England
                                      Mother’s age: 26
                                      Name of child: Sarah Anne
                                      Date/time of birth: Yesterday at 10 in the evening
                                      Witness 1 -Charles LARRADE
                                      Relationship: not a relative, abode Lille – tulle maker)
                                      Witness 2: Thomas CLAY, the child’s uncle

                                      Signed by Thomas and William CLAY –Charles LARRADE declared that he did not know how to do so

                                      Wonder if your rellies knew my hubby's rellies - they were born in Wazemmes around this time - I lived there for about 10 years myself -
                                      Last edited by taffyfrog; 13-05-13, 21:49.
                                      CAROLE : "A CHIP OFF THE OLD BLOCK"

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I was just going to go back and have a try, have found their marriage

                                        Leicester, St. Margaret 12-Mar 1832 B
                                        William Clay OTP Bach
                                        Martha Parkinson OTP Spin

                                        thank ever so much ;D
                                        Elaine

                                        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                        Comment

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