Grandad/Great Grandad

[margaretmarch]

That is indeed the theory I was hinting at, Margaret! (I think Elizabeth may have been in the Salford workhouse in 1901- she would have been single and 21, so of working age?? Mmmmm) But my only reservation is that perhaps it was a sister of George who was caring for Edward in 1911, rather than a relative of Elizabeth.

It could still be a sister of George - I'm not suggesting any secrecy or ill feeling just a practical solution while everyone gets settled into the new marriage/family unit or even a simple lack of space at George and Elizabeth's house.
Margaret

[redron]

there is no second name for george on the marriage cert so i assume he never had a second name,i have the davies mixed up she was married to my other great grandad on my grans side on my grandads marriage cert george worked as a dyer,i have found a george taylor born 23/08/1880,and i am almost certain my great gran was called elizabeth Ron

[margaretmarch]

there is no second name for george on the marriage cert so i assume he never had a second name,i have the davies mixed up she was married to my other great grandad on my grans side on my grandads marriage cert george worked as a dyer,i have found a george taylor born 23/08/1880,and i am almost certain my great gran was called elizabeth Ron

Where did you find that birth and what is the place? Does it say George is a dyer on the marriage cert?

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Can you tell us what age is on the marriage certificate and who the witnesses are please?

I know you have found an Edward Taylor in the 1911 census but as he is not with his father whose name is the only one we have for a check then we need to go back to basics and see if that could be the right one. Do you have any other information about where Edward might have been born - I know you have mentioned Peel Street.

Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

I think Margaret is right - the need to go back to basics as I think you are getting confused with the paternal and maternal sides. In 1911 your maternal Grandmother, Elizabeth Stretton is with her parents Charles Stretton and Elizabeth (nee Davies) living at 44, Peel Street, Pendleton - Charles and Elizabeth married in Dec 1893 Salford ref 8d 95

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/23...l=ReturnRecord

[Chrissie Smiff]

Did your Grandad Edward Taylor by any chance die in Wigan in Nov 1989? If so, I am wondering if his birth is actually 17th March 1904 and possibly registered in Salford April-June 1904 ref 8d 121. The reason I ask is because the person that I thought was most likely your Grandmothers death was in Wigan in December 1986.

IGNORE this earlier post everyone - I have just found and old thread and these are the likely deaths -

Elizabeth Taylor was born 25th December 1903 and died in Salford Jan 1991 aged 87.
and this is possibly the death for Edward -
Edward Taylor born about 1904 died Jan-March 1967 in Salford aged 63.

HOWEVER - on the marriage cert it apparently gived the ages as Edward 21 and Elizabeth 20!
The other possible death in Salford for Edward would be born 23rd August 1902 (more likely perhaps?) Died April-June 1975 Salford aged 72.

IF the second death i.e. 1975 Salford is correct and he was born in Salford I think you may find his possible birth on Lancs MBD. I have checked the 1902 births and although there are 3 in Salford, only one is in Pendleton. - This would also make the age of 8 in 1911 correct.

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi

[Chrissie Smiff]

Could you tell us their ages on the marriage cert please and the witnesses etc. NOW found on old thread -

the witnesses were James Armitt and Annie Roberts

[Elaine]

And there is this as a bit of a shot in the dark

1901 Census
HUGHES, James
SALFORD, Lancashire
RG13 piece 3712 folio 84 page 16
46 Peel Street going by Pendleton only at the mo for birth, James here is a glassblower

[Elaine]

and another dyer

Marriage: 3 Sep 1904 St James, New Bury, Farnworth, Lancashire, England
George Henry Taylor - 28, Dyer, Bachelor, 122 Plodder Lane
Mary Ann Parkinson - 23, Cotton weaver, Spinster, 24 Hill Field
Groom's Father: David Taylor, Draper
Bride's Father: John Parkinson, Coalminer
Witness: John Edward Parkinson; Elizabeth Lowe
Married by Banns by: George Holden, Vicar
Register: Marriages 1891 - 1910, Page 170, Entry 340
Source: Register at Manchester Central Library

it's a bit of a mammoth one!

[Chrissie Smiff]

there is no second name for george on the marriage cert so i assume he never had a second name,i have the davies mixed up she was married to my other great grandad on my grans side on my grandads marriage cert george worked as a dyer,i have found a george taylor born 23/08/1880,and i am almost certain my great gran was called elizabeth Ron

I'm a bit confused about this Ron - how do you have an EXACT date of birth for this George please?

[margaretmarch]

I am just looking through Peel Street Pendleton for 1901 and found the James Hughes Elaine mentions at post #28 no Taylors in that street so far but will press on. There is Peel St in Salford too so will look at that next.
Margaret

PS completed both Peel street listings and no Taylor families in either.

NB the James Hughes that has an Edward Taylor living with him in 1911 is a Coal Miner

[margaretmarch]

There is a tree on ancestry showing Edward Taylor b 26 August 1903 Salford death in Salford but no date given.

Is that tree yours Ron?

Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

I am just looking through Peel Street Pendleton for 1901 and found the James Hughes Elaine mentions at post #28 no Taylors in that street so far but will press on. There is Peel St in Salford too so will look at that next.
Margaret

PS completed both Peel street listings and no Taylor families in either.

NB the James Hughes that has an Edward Taylor living with him in 1911 is a Coal Miner

If you look at my post #25 Margaret you will see that I suspect that Ron was getting his maternal grandmother mixed up with his paternal. The Stretton's are living at 44 Peel St in 1911.

[Chrissie Smiff]

See alteration at post #26

[kylejustin]

is there maybe a way ron, you could post an image of the marriage cert? and maybe you grandfather's death cert? this way we can see the ages he is said to have been, and might be able to track down the right birth cert for you?

[vera2013]

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...gesCRO&indiv=1

This could be the marriage Janet referred to in post 5. Father of Elizabeth is a Dyer but name is John.


EDIT Possibly not the James Hughes of 1911 as this one is a Fireman. Unless he changed jobs.

Vera

[margaretmarch]

If you look at my post #25 Margaret you will see that I suspect that Ron was getting his maternal grandmother mixed up with his paternal. The Stretton's are living at 44 Peel St in 1911.

I know Chrissie - it was just that 'I'd started so I'll finish'

Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

I know Chrissie - it was just that 'I'd started so I'll finish'

Margaret

Lol Margaret

I wish Ron would come back and tell us why he is so convinced that his grandfather was born in August 1903 and whether he knows when he died or not. What do think to my additions on post #26? I really wonder if he was actually born 23rd August 1902.

[margaretmarch]

Lol Margaret

I wish Ron would come back and tell us why he is so convinced that his grandfather was born in August 1903 and whether he knows when he died or not. What do think to my additions on post #26? I really wonder if he was actually born 23rd August 1902.

Well done for finding the old thread! I had a feeling we had covered this ground before for Ron and what you have added looks good but needs confirming by Ron.

I think Ron is maybe relying too heavily on what he 'knows' rather than what the records are showing. We do need some confirmation of stuff before we can go or advise any further. More certs are needed I think.

Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

I agree Margaret. I am also not totally convinced though that Edward's father's name was George. I suspect he may not have known, or perhaps forgotten as he got older.

The link that Vera put up for the marriage in post#36 looks a possibility. I have been trying to compare the two signatures of James Hughes - the one on the marriage cert link and the one on the 1911 census. There are many similarities and he could have changed jobs. On the marriage cert Elizabeth Taylor gives father as John (or possibly Job). I can't find one with a brother George but it also occured to me that Edward could have been the illigitimate son of one of Elizabeth's sisters. That would explain having to make up a father's name.