Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Jewish question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Jewish question

    I fear this is another of my questions without an answer, but I'll try. As you know (???) my gggg grandfather, Lyon Asher was a Jewish immigrant (first seen in Britain in 1820) He married a woman born in England. Is there any way I can find out if she was Jewish, or do you just trace her family back as far as you can & then, when you lose them, you don't know if that indicates a point when they came to Britain (if they were Jewish immigrants) or if you've come to a "normal non Jewish family brick wall" ?

    #2
    I wonder if The Beth Din is any help? here is a link I have got marriage contracts from them this link will tell you a bit about the wife being Jewish
    http://www.theus.org.uk/support_serv...riage_records/


    Val

    Comment


      #3
      Cheers for that link Val, it may just help me proove to my Nanna that her Grandmother was a Jewish German.
      Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

      I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks a lot, Val. As I didn't know I'd got Jewish ancestry till I started this lark, the issue of how strictly they adhered to their religion & for how long, intrigues me.

        Comment


          #5
          nor did I know, its not easy to research them is it ? but that Beth Din site also has burials so worth a look.
          By the way I found some of mine married twice once in a Synagogue in a Church ? was surprised at that too.

          This is one marriage in 1857
          http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...id&pid=2163626

          and him using a different name in 1860 marrying the same woman
          http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...26pgplz0q3dpid
          Last edited by Val wish Id never started; 13-03-13, 18:57.


          Val

          Comment


            #6
            If they married in synagogue, then she was Jewish too, almost certainly. If you can find the synagogue marriage record it will give you a wealth of information.

            Some Jews married in synagogue AND in church because they thought that made the marriage "legal" in this country. It did...but Jewish marriages, however they are performed, are also legal in this country.

            OC

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you all.....the father of a fellow descendant told her that her g grandfather formally broke all ties with the Jewish faith & that would tie in with my g grandfather suddenly starting to call himself James instead of Joseph (not that Joseph is particularly Jewish, but, by calling himself James, he would have been following the English non Jewish tradition of the first son being named after his father...but he's anglicised Jacob to James) I feel sad that I was cut off from that culture...but, then again, I suppose it's a thing you can't do by halves

              Comment


                #8
                My husband's family are Jewish and it occurs to me whether the Jewish marriage contract (a ketobah sp?) may be of help.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I got a Ketubah for one of mine from The Beth Din and it told me quite a bit except I couldn't read it had to have it translated.


                  Val

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks for the suggestion....is this the same as the document I have for my grandparents ? My grandmother was rabidly CofE (anyone who attended any other church was the Sperm of The Devil) & I often wonder if she knew about her husband's family's Jewish roots. When she died, we found (& I have) a most impressive fully legally executed document (in English) from the time that they got engaged. It lists all the items the husband is to bring into the marital home. I've been told that this is part of Jewish tradition. I wonder what she made of it ? Maybe he told her it was a family tradition, not a Jewish one. Obviously, it wasn't used as an "official contract" because they were married in a CofE church. Maybe my grandmother's fierce religious attitude was defensive
                    Last edited by greyingrey; 15-03-13, 10:21.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Grey

                      As I understand it, that contract is actually proof that a Jewish marriage has taken place, lol. There does not need to be any official ceremony, all there needs to be is the written contract of goods AND that the groom gives the bride a ring of "known value".

                      Belt and braces I reckon, in your grandmother's case, lol.

                      OC

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Oh, thanks, OC...that makes the document even more valuable from a family history point of view

                        Comment


                          #13
                          In an Orthodox Jewish home, the marriage contract would be framed and displayed in pride of place in the home, rather as we would display our wedding photos.

                          OC

                          Comment


                            #14
                            This is all SO interesting.....my grandmother couldn't have been unaware of his Jewish roots, could she ? (My grandfather died before I was born but he used to make my (non Jewish) mother's life a misery by making jokes about her large nose....saying she looked like a Jewess & should be pushing a barrow....which is exactly how his family started out....he must have spent his whole life pretending)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              No, she almost certainly knew - and if SHE didn't, then those around her would!

                              I don't think he necessarily spent his whole life pretending. I think many Jews simply stopped advertising the fact that they were Jewish, for very obvious reasons. My late MIL was Jewish, but attended C of E church with her husband and son. She did not keep kosher, nor were there any other "signs" of her being Jewish and as far as I know, she didn't attend synagogue. But when she died, she had a Jewish burial

                              OC

                              Comment


                                #16
                                He may have had a Jewish wedding contract to please his family & a CofE church wedding to please his wife.

                                There must have been quite a period in Notts & Leics, when you heard someone had the surname of Asher, that you automatically assumed they were Jewish/had Jewish roots (rather like Cohen ) I wonder when that changed ? I'd guess it certainly wasn't the case in my grandparents' & parents' generation, so most of the Ashers must have left/"not advertised" their faith. It makes me sad, but I don't quite know why

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Grey

                                  It makes you sad because no human being should ever feel they have to conceal their racial origins or their religionfor fear of persecution.

                                  OC

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Exactly, OC....my gfather's jibes at my mother were obviously hardened by the background of years of family suffering. ( though that didn't help her unhappiness at the time) Maybe he feared he'd get grandchildren who'd look "typically Jewish" & that they'd suffer.

                                    Sorry, chaps, but another thought has come into my mind.....as I believe (?) that the Jewish faith was considered to pass down the female line, would a non_Jewish woman have been allowed to enter into a Jewish marriage contract?

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      according to the Beth Din site No ,its on that link I put up somewhere shall try and find it.


                                      Val

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Marriage Authorisations - granted by The United Synagogue (from c.1845) to give permission to a local Rabbi to conduct a marriage ceremony. The Authorisation is granted after the authorities are satisfied that both parties are halachically Jewish or that they have an acceptable Certificate of Conversion. The Marriage Authorisation gives amongst other information:-


                                        Val

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X