Can't find grandfathers birth.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Angelina I only have a basic Ancestry sub, so cannot view the bp image. Does it give a profession for the father?

There seem to be at least 2 families around the area with matching names. We need to do more digging.

Jay

[Chrissie Smiff]

hey are living at Dagman/Dagmar Street Janet and Thomas is a fireman. That would fit in with an early death possibly too. I imagine it was even more hazardous in those days than now.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

hey are living at Dagman/Dagmar Street Janet and Thomas is a fireman. That would fit in with an early death possibly too. I imagine it was even more hazardous in those days than now.

Chrissie, are you referring to the baptism entry?
Are we talking Liverpool rather than Cheshire?

Jay

[Chrissie Smiff]

Sorry Janet, yes, I was answering you query about the bp image #21.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for clarifying that, Chrissie

Jay

[Cheshanna]

My grandfather, Albert Edward, was a butcher and, when my mum was born in 1917, was in the Royal Flying Corps - if thats any help.

Anna.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Do you have the address that they were living at when your mother was born? The reason I ask is in case his war record is available on Ancestry.

It's the occupation of Thomas that would be most useful. The occupation of your grandfather would only help if he was a butchers assistant or something in 1901, as he would only be about 15/16 then.

[Cheshanna]

I think it was 4 Stanley Mount, Whitby, Ellesmere Port. This is the address where she was born and I'm almost certain that she was born at home.

[Chrissie Smiff]

I can't find his war record I'm afraid. For anyone looking - the Albert Edward Jones that is a Butcher and Driver (which made me get excited) and was living at 11 Whitford Terrace, was married to Catherine McDermott and is the wrong one.

[Cheshanna]

I wish I knew which regiment he was in than I could find out a bit more about his working life.

[Chrissie Smiff]

I have trawled through all the Albert Jones, living in Cheshire in 1901, father Thomas or no father present, of about the right age. Non of them are apprentice butchers or similar. There aren't that many anyway. Of course he could easily have started his working life as something else entirely. He may also not have been living in Cheshire.

[Cheshanna]

I am beginning to lose hope of ever finding out about him.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I am beginning to lose hope of ever finding out about him.

NEVER give up hope, but sometimes we have to re-evaluate what we THINK we know and try to think outside that box.

In your first post you said your grandfather was born in Bowden 1886 ish. As you're looking for his birth registration and can't find it, I presume you don't have his birth cert. How do you KNOW he was born at Bowden? - is there any documentation for this, is it where he was brought up, the family story?

Could he have been born and registered with a different surname, but "brought up" by a Thomas Jones?

Could Thomas have been the "official" forename of Albert's father, but for everyday purposes, and census, he was known by a second forename? Does your mum know the forename of Albert's mother?

AS no-one can find him with what we think we know, it does seem that perhaps we may have one bit of "mis" information and need another clue to help us search along another route.

Jay

[Chrissie Smiff]

Janet is right - never give up I thought I would never find my hubby's grandfather, until years later and lots of research and help, I discovered that he was born under a different surname and brought up by a stepfather who had the name he always used.

[Cheshanna]

On the 1911 census he is documented as being born in Bowden. His father's name is Thomas on Albert Edward Jones' marriage certificate. I don't have a birth certificate.

Their marriage certificate says when he married my grandmother they both lived at 43 Royal Street in Liverpool, the church where they were married - St Mary's, Kirkdale is in the registration district of West Derby, Liverpool. Until I saw the census I always thought that he was from Liverpool.

My mother passed away in 1998 so I can't ask her anything and the only sibling still living is my uncle who I have not seen for years and I don't know how to contact him.

[Night Owl]

Can you just confirm a few things please?

1. What are the names of the witnesses on the marriage certificate?

2. Re the father on the m cert - does it just say "Thomas Jones deceased" or does it give an occupation?

3. On your Mum's birth cert, does it give anything other than Royal Flying Corps in the occupation? ie. does it give a rank or number?

[Cheshanna]

1. Richard Cross. Bessie Davies.

2. It says Thomas Jones, deceased.

3. 2nd Air Mechanic, Royal Flying Corps. Butcher.

[Night Owl]

I wonder whether the best way to go would be to see if there are any surviving RFC records for him. There is a research guide here from The National Archives but its not very clear (to me anyway ) what is available and whether it would give any more useful information. At least we know he wasn't an officer so that narrows it down a bit

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/royalflyingcorpsairmen.htm

Nothing is jumping out at me about the witnesses.

[kylejustin]

maybe you could ask kevin asplin to look into the army records. he is a military researcher at kew, and is very good at his job.

http://www.britishmedals.us/kevin/intro.html