Catholic Records

[Olde Crone Holden]

In fairness to the RC church, I feel I should point out that Quakers and Jews take the same attitude to having their registers filmed, or even available for viewing.

This attitude possibly reflects the historical prejudices against these three groups and the persecution they suffered.

OC

[Janet]

Mary

Two townlands only in Tipperary, I suspect they are Protestant records, and all 1860 onwards in Cork except for two townlands is the reason I wrote the above. Most other records in other counties also appear to be post 1860 and you only have to look at the number of townlands in all the counties to see how poor the coverage is. It certainly looks like only 20% to me.

For example I input Rahelty, a townland of Eliogarty Barony in Tipperary and all I got was film for 1901 and 1911 Census. Very little use to me when many of my ancestors are from here back in the 1790's!! However I will say that LDS often do offer other historical information on their films and there is quite a bit on Thurles Tipperary if people want more info on an area so that is also worth checking out. I do happen to belong to both Tipperary Historical Society and Cork Genealogical Society, so I get the history of the areas that way.

J Bee

This was in the Catholic press only last week, but is reiteration as RC have never allowed filming of RC records. It is to do with the sealing of all souls into the mormon faith, but I have always felt that though the Mormons may think they can do this, it is unrealistic to think it is really possible to change someone's religion after death. Unless the person concerned has actually agreed to change, it is just not feasible. Whatever happened to free will? So I am very unsure why the Catholic Church should suddenly announced this.

Janet

[Mary from Italy]

Janet, you can look at the Hugh Wallis site to see which Irish records are on the IGI:

Counties in Ireland

and on the LDS site to see which have been microfilmed:

Place search page

Irish Ancestors also shows what registers are available for each county, where they are, and which have been filmed by the LDS:

Irish Ancestors /Counties

[Olde Crone Holden]

Well, the LDS has filmed thousands of films which aren't transcribed onto the IGI because transcription depends wholly on volunteers, nothing to do with them being Catholic records.

Nell, if TNA own the copyright of a particular film then they are unlikely to make it availalbe for filming by the LDS I would have thought, partly from a financial point of view and partly out of sensitivity for the stance of the RC church.

The fact that some Catholic records have been filmed/transcribed by the LDS is down to luck or subterfuge, I think.

I have to say that whilst Richard's explanation is undoubtedly true, the few times I have applied directly to the Priest for information from a register, I have either been completely ignored, or quoted a ridiculously high fee. The attitude appears to be one of "Mind your own business, this information belongs to the church and no-one else".

OC

[Janet]

Of the few hundred Irish ancestors that I have traced, only four are on the IGI so not many slip through the net! Two of those are incorrect! Tipperary is one county that you will not find any, as Bishop is even anti allowing anyone to look at the registers in Dublin, never mind them being on the IGI!!

That said I have seen many on the IGI of all Irish counties for records 1864 onwards but I doubt that many people know of Irish records on IGI for those pre 1860? For those who have seen records on the IGI what years are on there? It would be easy for LDS to film records because these records are in Dublin National Library on microfilm, although all original Catholic Church records are still with Catholic Churches all over the country.

I did read somewhere that only 20% of Irish Records have been filmed by IGI which is why I am always warning people to be careful of the Irish IGI as it is such poor coverage.

Janet

[Richard]

I can sort of understand why the Roman Catholic Church takes this stance, after all, if I understand it correctly, the reason the LDS gathers these records is not to facilitate general geneaological research but to facilitate their own members in 're-baptising' these Catholics into their own creed, after death, which I can quite understand them not being terribly happy about!

That said the RC records of the village in Ireland my ancestors came from, was filmed by them somehow, as a gentleman I'm in contact with has them on loan from LDS and is transcribing them.

[Little Nell]

So either it was done secretly or with the approval/connivance of the relevant priest?!

[Mary from Italy]

Some RC records have been filmed which aren't on the IGI. I've had the Drogheda RC microfilm on loan at my LDS centre.

[Macbev]

My g.grandparent's marriage and the birth/christening of most of their children in Rathmore, co Kerry was on the IGI.....it was an breakthrough for me back in the early 1990s

[Little Nell]

Um, OC, on a technical point...

If the records are at TNA or as it was PRO, don't they own the copyright? could they not have given permission to LDS, regardless of Catholic church, or am I talking nonsense as usual?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Yes, some did slip through the net, but not many.

SOMEONE, however, did some clandestine filming at the Records Office and others did transcripts from registers deposited at the Records Office in error!

Do be careful to track the exact source on the IGI - some of these so-called extracts are not, they are transcripts.

OC

[Little Nell]

RG4 (RG = registrar general) is Tne National Archives collection of non-conformist (ie not the established C of E) records, including Catholic, baptist, Quaker etc.

[Uncle John]

Yes I thought that too but I think its been reiterated by the Vatican recently.

Hower I have found a rellies baptism at St Mary's RC Church Bishopwearmouth in 1837 on the LDS site - so there are some exceptions to the rule!!!

See IGI Batch C064581 (film 0593801), which consists of baptism records from about 15 different churches, mostly Durham, some Dorset and one in Notts. There's a reference against the film "RG4 1494".

All but one of mine that got married did so in the Register Office. The one that married in St. Mary's in 1863 is not on the IGI.

[Just Gillian]

There are some Catholic records, including baptisms, on the LDS taken from the Publications of the Catholic Record Society. Many of the names in these are in "Latin" and so don't show up using the English spelling of the names.

[Pat Hope]

I have found a few Irish catholic records on the LDS site. My grandmother's brother is on and I saw the original record at the library in Dublin

[JBee]

Yes I thought that too but I think its been reiterated by the Vatican recently.

Hower I have found a rellies baptism at St Mary's RC Church Bishopwearmouth in 1837 on the LDS site - so there are some exceptions to the rule!!!

[Olde Crone Holden]

JBee

The Catholic church has NEVER allowed the LDS to film Catholic records, so this is very old news indeed!

OC

[JBee]

Just read on another message board that

the Vatican has banned the LDS from filming catholic records.