Can we go anywhere with this?

[Olde Crone Holden]

All the people mentioned are dead, except D. and I have his permission to post the details.

D's father was born Percival Herbert Constable Smith,(yeah, I know, sorry) 24 Nov 1915, South Hammersmith.

No father's name on the cert and Percival would never discuss this as he was very ashamed and bitter.

Mother Ethel Violet Smith.

From the Parish Magazine of St Matthew, West Kensington:(July 1916)

Baptism May 28th 1916, Percival Herbert Constable.

In the same edition of the magazine, Roll of Honour:

Bert Constable, RAMC.

For many years, D assumed that Bert Constable was the father of Percival. However, a few years ago, his mother showed him a newspaper cutting, which was a photo of Ethel Violet Smith, clutching Percival in a shawl anD underneath it said "the son of Ethel and X X ?"

D. cannot remember the name of the supposed father but it was definitely double-barrelled and he was "an Officer at Shoeburyness and a member of a long established Norfolk farming family".

The story was that he was killed in WW1 and that is why he never married Ethel.

D.'s cousin has looked in various local papers - Hammersmith and Southend - but cannot find such a photo (but we don't know how hard he looked).

Unfortunately, D gave the newspaper clipping back to his mother, and Percival then destroyed it.

Ethel went back to her mother in Southend about 1918, taking her three children to live there (no father's names on their certs either).

Um, how many Officers were there in 1915 with double barrelled names, from Norfolk?

OC

[KiteRunner]

I think that it was just about that time that double-barrelled surnames started to come into fashion, so there could be a few, but maybe not very many at Shoeburyness, I don't know. But if we find one, how will we know that there isn't another one somewhere that we haven't found?!
(Sorry, just realised you said he died in WW1 so if we find a name we can check that)

[Olde Crone Holden]

Kate

I was hoping that a selection of double-barrelled names might jog D.'s memory, lol!

All of this supposes that Ethel was telling the truth, but I think she would have had to be extremely hard-boiled to have her photo in the paper, naming an Officer, if he wasn't the father.

OC

[KiteRunner]

Well, if I were you I would search for Shoeburyness during WW1 on the London Gazette site, and pick out the names of likely officers from there, then see which of them died during the war on CWGC.

[Little Nell]

OC

Intriguing, but I don't know how you would go about finding out more. You don't know which magazine/newspaper the photo was in (or why).

Ethel had 3 children, none with named fathers on the birth cert. Even if you find a likely double-barrelled chap, it doesn't explain why Percival was given surname Smith (except that its a nice anonymous name if you want to hide/protect the father).

[KiteRunner]

I thought Smith was his mother's surname??

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I have a lot of double barrelled people on my tree who were adult around the time of WW1. The vast majority only had one surname in 1901, or the name that would become the first part of their surname was just a middle name at that time.....it was very fashionable to become d-b in the Edwardian era.

I'm trying to think of a way.......Was the officer supposed to be the father of all her children? When was the last one born/conceived?

[Sue from Southend]

I live on the Shoebury Garrison! (They refurbished and started developing the site a few years ago)

I've checked the index of a book I have on the garrison and there's no name leaping out at me but will check more thoroughly.

The regiment most associated with Shoebury is the Royal Artillery but according to my book the following were stationed here during the first couple of years of WW1.

3rd Battalion Border Regt
14 and 15 Battalions Rifle Brigade,14 and 15 Kings Royal Rifle Brigade and 10 borders (which formed the 92 Infantry Brigade) Most went to Gallipoli and suffered heavy losses.
After the 92's left several Provisional Battalions moved in forming the 4th Reserve Brigade.
This is well into 1915 and it seems likely that your officer was gone by then. I can give more detail if you want. It might narrow the search down a bit!

The book has close associations with the RA Museum so they might be able to give you some more info.

Hope this helps! And if D wants any photos most of the original buildings are still standing and the Chapel is on the Wiki.

[BC]

The Britsh Library has a newspaper archive which might help - it's online.

[KiteRunner]

Well, but only 20th century newspapers will help here, and most of the British Library newspaper archive databases are pre-20th century, aren't they? But the London Gazette will list all the officers promoted, awarded medals etc and if he was at Shoeburyness then hopefully it will mention that in the entry so it will come up on a search for Shoeburyness. Hopefully!

[Roger in Sussex]

The Army List 1915 was published by S&N Genealogical Supplies, ISBN 1847270786. There is a copy in the British Library, but other copies might be available for loan through the public library interlending service. (Information from Google Books)

Or one can buy one from W. H. Smith for £19.95:D

Roger

[Guest]

just to say nice to see you back hope you had a nice time !!!

[Mary from Italy]

Does D remember if one of the double-barrelled names was Constable? I assume that would have stood out in his mind.

[Mary from Italy]

FindmyPast has the lists of Soldiers who died in the Great War, National Roll of the Great War, and Armed Forces Births 1761-1994.

Not sure if they're searchable by place, though.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

Why would Ethel's photo, with her son, be in the paper? Was the note written underneath something printed by the paper or written there by the person who kept the clipping? Did Ethel keep the clipping until it ended up in the hands of D's mother? (presumably)

[Mary from Italy]

Oh yes, that'd make more sense if it was a handwritten note.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Sorry, haven't been ignoring you, I've been at work today.

Ethel's photo was in the paper with a heading and a footnote, by the paper presumably, but possibly from info supplied by Ethel?

D was convinced that this photo appeared in the Southend press, but searches of the two papers concerned threw up nothing - one paper didn't start publication till much later than 1916. He now thinks it might have been a Hammersmith paper (!).

Somebody - possibly Percival - had inked in several questionmarks after the printed blurb about Mr Double Barrelled.

The thing that is niggling me...Ethel was living in Hammersmith until about 1919. What was she living on? She had two children, possibly a third. She then returned to her mother's house and although they were quite poor, they were not starving - who was keeping them all? She did not marry until very late in life.

I also wondered if Herbert Constable was a relative and she gave Percival his names as a mark of respect, seeing that he died at the same time as Percival was being baptised. (Percival was always known as Bert).

Sue

Thanks for that info, it may help to narrow things down a bit. As Mr Double-Barrelled was an Officer in 1915, he was either a career soldier, or his father bought him a commission.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Sorry, should have said - D said his grandmother was a lovely, friendly woman and he doubts if she would deliberately lie about the father of her child - she was completely unashamed, he said.

(I asked him how likely it was that she was making something up to excuse a lack of knowledge about Percival's father, lol)

OC