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Was ANNE OGILVIE born 1721 the daughter of 3rd Earl of Findlater, Scotland?

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    Was ANNE OGILVIE born 1721 the daughter of 3rd Earl of Findlater, Scotland?

    10.01.2021: ADDED - Please see my blogs on the Coulls here on FTF for all the information obtained, along with a lot of history too.

    My Blogs>Liz's Blogs. If I haven't responded to messages in the past, please message me again.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    According to information given by her descendants, she was but on another thread about the Coulls in Antigua and Cullen, Scotland, Moggie and I are unearthing more information which throws doubt on it.

    Thought it would be helpful to start this thread so that we can put on here the online resources we are exploring and enlist any other members' help. This also might be of use to anyone in the future researching these families or the landed gentry in Scotland.

    This is where we got the first mention of Anne Ogilvie being the daughter of the 3rd Earl of Findlater:

    Vol 1 The History of Antigua p178 has the drawn out tree:

    http://www.archive.org/stream/histor...e/178/mode/1up

    Then checking this online site on peerage cannot make sense of dates and she isn't clearly on the list.

    http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/on...t/index308.htm

    This is transcript from it:

    James [Ogilvy], 2nd Lord Ogilvy of Deskford later Earl of Findlater, PC

    1st son and heir of Walter [Ogilvy], 1st Lord Ogilvy of Deskford, by his second wife Lady Mary Douglas, 3rd dau. of William [Douglas], 6th Earl of Morton

    born

    mar. (1) after 13 and 17 Feb 1610 Lady Elizabeth Wemyss (widow of David Wemyss, son and heir ap. of Sir John Wemyss of Wemyss), 2nd dau. of Andrew [Leslie], 5th Earl of Rothes, by his first wife Grizel Hamilton, dau. of Sir James Hamilton of Finnart, co. Renfrew

    children by first wife

    1. Lady Elizabeth Ogilvy, mar. Sir Patrick Ogilvy, Yr of Inchmartine, later 2nd Earl of Findlater

    2. Lady Anne Ogilvy (d. Jan 1660/1), mar. after 5 Apr 1637 as his first wife William [Cunningham], 9th Earl of Glencairn, and had issue

    mar. (2) Lady Marion Cunningham (mar. (2) 13 Nov 1660 as his second wife Hon Alexander Fraser, Master of Saltoun, 1st son and heir ap. by his second wife of Alexander [Fraser], 11th Lord Saltoun of Abernethy; dsp. Jan 1660/1), 4th dau. of William [Cunningham], 8th Earl of Glencairn, by his wife Lady Janet Kerr, 2nd dau. of Mark [Kerr], 1st Earl of Lothian

    died

    s.p.m. 1652

    created 20 Feb 1638 Lord Deskford and Earl of Findlater, with remainder to the heirs male of his body succeeding him in the patrimony and estate of Findlater and Deskford; resigned the honours and obtained a novodamus 18 Oct 1641 with remainder to his son-in-law Sir Patrick Ogilvy of Inchmartine, and the heirs male of the said Patrick suc. by son-in-law

    note suc. his father 7 Jul 1624 as 2nd Lord Ogilvy of Deskford; Privy Councillor 1637 and 1641 for life.

    Patrick [Ogilvy], 2nd Earl of Findlater son and heir of Sir Patrick Ogilvy of Inchmartine, co. Perth, by his wife Anne Campbell, 3rd dau. of Sir Duncan Campbell of Glenorchy, 1st Bt., by his first wife Lady Jean Stewart, 2nd dau. by his second wife of John [Stewart], 4th Earl of Atholl

    born

    mar. Lady Elizabeth Ogilvy, 1st dau. and cohrss. of James [Ogilvy], 1st Earl of Findlater, by his first wife Lady Elizabeth Wemyss, widow of David Wemyss, Yr. of Wemyss, and 2nd dau. by his first wife of Andrew [Leslie], 5th Earl of Rothes

    children

    1. Hon James Ogilvy, later 3rd Earl of Findlater

    1. Lady Elizabeth Ogilvy, mar. (sic?) Alexander Innes, Yr of Fedderate

    died May 1659

    suc. by son

    note during the lifetime of his father-in-law he was styled Lord Deskford and Inchmartine and accorded the style and precedence of the eldest son of an Earl

    James [Ogilvy], 3rd Earl of Findlater born

    mar. (1) c.1658 Lady Anne Seton (widow of Robert Seton, son of Sir George Seton of Hailes), only child of Hugh [Montgomerie], 7th Earl of Eglinton, by his first wife Lady Anne Hamilton, 1st dau. of James [Hamilton], 2nd Marquess of Hamilton.

    children by first wife (dvp means died whilst parent living)

    1. Hon Walter Ogilvy, styled Lord Deskford (b. c. 1660; dvp. bef. Jun 1698)

    2. Hon James Ogilvy, later 1st Viscount Seafield later 1st Earl of Seafield later 4th Earl of Findlater

    3. Col Hon Patrick Ogilvy of Lonmay and Inchmartine, MP for Cullen 1702-08 and for Elgin Burghs 1708-10 (b. c. 1665; d. 20 Dec 1737),.

    mar. his cousin Elizabeth Montgomerie (d. 1753), only dau. of Hon Francis Montgomerie of Giffen MP (by his second wife Elizabeth Primrose, widow of Sir James Primrose of Barnbougle and dau. of Sir Robert Sinclair of Longformachus, Bt.), 2nd son by his second wife of Hugh [Montgomerie], 7th Earl of Eglinton, and had issue:

    1a. James Ogilvy (b. 24 Jul 1709)
    2a. Francis Ogilvy (b. 11 Sep 1710)
    3a. Col Patrick Ogilvy (b. 24 Mar 1712), mar. Mary Ogilvy, only dau. of Archibald Ogilvy of Rothiemay.
    4a. Hew Ogilvy (bapt. 30 Jul 1668)

    1a. Mary Ogilvy
    2a. Anna Ogilvy (d. 27 Aug 1735), mar. after 19 Oct 1698 George Allardice of that Ilk, and had issue

    mar. (2) Oct 1703 Lady Mary Livingston (widow of (1) Alexander [Livingston], 2nd Earl of Calendar, and (2) Sir James Livingston of Westquarter, Bt.; dsp. bef. Aug 1705), 3rd dau. of William [Hamilton], 2nd Duke of Hamilton, by his wife Lady Elizabeth Maxwell, 1st dau. and cohrss. of James [Maxwell], 1st Earl of Dirletoun

    died 1711 suc. by son by first wife (Walter)

    James [Ogilvy], 1st Viscount Seafield later 1st Earl of Seafield later 4th Earl of Findlater, KT PC (He must have taken the title after Walter’s death)

    born 11 Jul 1663

    mar. 1687 Anne Dunbar (d. 14 Aug 1708), dau. of Sir William Dunbar of Durn, 1st Bt., by his wife Janet Brodie, dau. of Very Rev John Brodie, Dean of Aldearn

    children

    1. Hon James Ogilvy, later 5th Earl of Findlater

    2. Hon William Ogilvy (b. 6 May 1699; d. young)

    3. Hon George Ogilvy, advocate (d. Jan 1732)

    1. Lady Elizabeth Ogilvy (b. on or bef. 6 May 1692; d. 24 Sep 1778), mar. 15 Jul 1710 Charles [Maitland], 6th Earl of Lauderdale, and had issue

    2. Lady Janet Ogilvy (dsp. 25 Dec 1720), mar. (1) 1716 Hugh Forbes, Yr of Craigievar, 1st son and heir ap. of Sir William Forbes of Craigievar, 3rd Bt., and (2) 1719 as his first wife William [Duff], 1st Earl Fife

    died 15 Aug 1730

    created v.p. 24 Jun 1698 Lord Ogilvy of Cullen and Viscount Seafield, with remainder to the heirs male of his body, whom failing to the other heirs of entail of his land

    v.p. 24 Jun 1701 Lord Ogilvy of Deskford and Cullen, Viscount Reidhaven and Earl of Seafield, with similar remainder

    suc. by son

    note MP for Cullen 1689-95; Solicitor General [S] 1693; knighted 1695; Secretary of State [S] 1695/6-1702 and 1704-05; President of the Parliament [S] 1698; Lord High Commissioner to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland 1700, 1703, 1724 and 1727; Lord High Chancellor of Scotland 1702-04 and 1705-08; Knight of the Thistle 1703/4; Privy Councillor 1707-1714 and 1723-30; a Representative Peer 1707-10, 1712-15 and 1722-30; Lord Chief Baron [S] 1708-09; Keeper of the Great Seal of Scotland 1713-14.

    James [Ogilvy], 5th Earl of Findlater born c.1689

    mar. (1) c.1710 Lady Elizabeth Hay, 2nd dau. of Thomas [Hay], 7th Earl of Kinnoull, by his wife Hon Elizabeth Drummond, only dau. of William [Drummond], 1st Viscount Strathallan

    children by first wife

    1. Hon James Ogilvy, later 6th Earl of Findlater

    1. Lady Margaret Ogilvy (d. 20 Feb 1757), mar. 31 Oct 1735 as his second wife Sir Ludovic Grant of Grant later Colquhoun of Luss later Grant of Grant, 7th Bt. MP (b. 13 Jan 1707; d. 18 Mar 1773), and had issue:

    1a. Sir James Grant of Grant, 8th Bt., Member of Parliament for Elgin and Forres 1761-68 and for Banffshire 1790-95, Lord Lieutenant of Inverness-shire 1794-1809, Cashier-General of the Excise in Scotland 1795-1811 (b. 19 May 1738; d. 18 Feb 1811), mar. 4 Jan 1763 Jean Duff (d. 15 Feb 1805), only child of Alexander Duff of Hatton, by his wife Lady Anne Duff, 1st dau. of William [Duff], 1st Earl Fife, and had issue:

    1b. Sir Lewis Alexander Grant later Grant-Ogilvy of Inchmartine, 9th Bt., later 5th Earl of Seafield

    2b. Alexander Grant (dvp. an infant 21 Mar 1772)

    3b. James Thomas Grant, Registrar of the Provincial Court in Benares 1801-04 (b. 10 Aug 1776; d. 28 Jul 1804)

    4b. Francis William Grant later Ogilvy-Grant, later 6th Earl of Seafield

    5b. Robert Henry Grant (b. 5 Aug 1783; d. 11 Feb 1862)

    6b. Alexander Hope Grant (b. 21 Aug 1784; dvp. 22 Aug 1793)

    7b. Dundas Charles Grant (b. 21 Oct 1787; dvp. 21 Mar 1788)

    1b. Anne Margaret Grant (b. 25 Jul 1764; d. 3
    1a. Mariana Grant (d. 28 Mar 1807)

    2a. Penuel Grant (b. 20 Sep 1750; d. 3 Apr 1835), mar. 6 Jan 1776 Henry Mackenzie, and had issue

    3a. Margaret Grant (b. 11 May 1752 ; d. unm.)

    4a. Helen Grant (b. May 1754; d. 1 Jan 1832), mar. 9 Sep 1773 Sir Alexander Penrose Cumming of Altyre later Gordon-Cumming of Altyre, 1st Bt., and had issue

    5a. Anne Hope Grant (b. 6 Jul 1756; d. 1797), mar. 3 Apr 1781 Very Rev Robert Darley Waddilove DD, Dean of Ripon, and had issue

    6a. Mary Grant (d. 12 Dec 1784)

    7a. Elizabeth Grant (d. 27 Mar 1804)

    2. Lady Anne Ogilvy (d. 8 Feb 1759), mar. 14 Sep 1733 John [Hope], 2nd Earl of Hopetoun, and had issue

    mar. (2) Dec 1723 Lady Sophia Hope (b. 31 May 1702; dsp. 25 Apr 1761), 1st dau. of Charles [Hope], 1st Earl of Hopetoun, by his wife Lady Henrietta Johnstone, only dau. by his first wife of William [Johnstone], 1st Marquess of Annandale

    died by suicide 9 Jul 1764

    suc. by son by first wife

    note a Lord of Police 1734-42; a Representative Peer 1734-61; Vice Admiral of Scotland 1737/8-64

    James [Ogilvy], 6th Earl of Findlater born c.1714

    mar. 9 Jun 1749 Lady Mary Murray (b. 3 Mar 1720; d. 29 Dec 1795), 2nd dau. of John [Murray], 1st Duke of Atholl, by his second wife Hon Mary Ross, 2nd dau. of William [Ross], 12th Lord Ross

    children
    1. Hon James Ogilvy, later 7th Earl of Findlater

    2. Hon John Ogilvy (d. 1763)

    died 3 Nov 1770

    suc. by son

    note a Commissioner of Customs [S] 1754-61; Chancellor of King's College, Aberdeen 1761-70; a Lord of Police 1765-70

    James [Ogilvy], 7th Earl of Findlater born 10 Apr 1750

    mar.1779 Christina Teresa Murray (b. c. 1755; d. 24 May 1813), dau. of Lt Gen Sir Joseph Murray, 3rd Bt., Count Murray of Melgum, by his wife Maria Colette, Countess von Lichtervelde

    died s.p. 5 Oct 1811

    suc. by cousin (Earldom of Seafield, etc. only)

    On the death of the 7th Earl of Findlater the Earldom of Findlater and the Lordships of Ogilvy of Deskford and Deskford became dormant and the Earldom of Seafield and the other peerages of 1698 and 1701 passed to his cousin, Lewis Alexander [Grant later Grant-Ogilvy], 5th Earl of Seafield.

    Following the regrant of 1641 the heirs male of Patrick [Ogilvy], 2nd Earl of Findlater, if any, would be entitled to the Earldom of Findlater and the Lordship of Ogilvy of Deskford. These were claimed in 1812 by Sir William Ogilvy of Boyne, Bt., but no proceedings were taken in respect of his claim.
    Last edited by Darksecretz; 14-01-12, 12:39.
    Liz

    #2
    From the History of Antigua book online (link in first post), PATRICK COULL was married to ANNE OGILVIE dau of 3rd Earl of Lindlater. Patrick described as of Cullen, county of Banff, Scotland, a merchant.

    CULLEN M.I. website shows MI :

    13) This stone is erected by PATRICK COULL, Merchant in Cullen, to the memory of his beloved wife, ANN OGILVIE, who died the 29th Oct., 1764, aged 43. Also, ANN COULL, their daughter, who died in her infancy.

    This makes year of birth for Ann Ogilvie, wife of Merchant of Cullen, about 1721

    http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sheena_charles/CullenMI.htm

    On same website: (159) JAMES, Earl of Findlater and Seafield, Viscount of Redhaven, Lord Ogilvie of Deskford and Cullen, born July 11, 1663, Knight of the Most Ancient Order of the Thistle, and Sheriff of the Shire of Banff, successively Secretary of state and Chancellor of Scotland. After the union of the two kingdoms, he served as one of the representative Peers of Scotland in Parliament, was of the Privy Council, and Commissioner to several General Assembles of the Church of Scotland. His great eloquence and capacity acquired him just applause in publick, as did his strict equity and generosity in private life. Dutiful to his parents, kind and affectionate to his wife and children, benevolent to all, he died, universally regretted, Aug, 19, 1730. Here likwise lyes interred his wife, ANN DUMBAR, Countess of Seafield, who's rare virtue, piety, prudence, and sweetness of temper rendered her amiable in all the different relations of life. This monument is erected to their memory by JAMES, Earl of Findlater and Seafield, their son.

    (160) JAMES, Earl of Findlater and Seafield, Vice-Admiral of Scotland, aged 74, ended a life of eminent piety, loyalty, and benevolence upon the 9th of July, 1764, in obedience to his commands, the monument above with the inscription was erected, he having forbid any particular monument for himself.
    Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 10-12-11, 10:21.
    Liz

    Comment


      #3
      Search of Fam Search IGI finds an Ann Ogilvie with the right year of birth 1721:

      Ann Ogilvie
      Bap: 10/7/1721 Cullen. Birth: 10/7/1721
      Fa: Walter Ogilvie Mo: Jean Jame(i)son

      Indexing Project (Batch): C11150-2 System Origin: Scotland-ODM Source Film: 990822

      Her brothers on IGI with same parents:

      Thomas Ogilvie Birth and Bap: 21/7/1722 Cullen.

      Robert Ogilvie Birth and Bap: 28/9/1729 Cullen.

      Marriage of parents: Walter Ogilvie & Jean Jamison 3/12/1720 Auchindoir & Kearn, Aberdeen.

      Indexing Project (Batch): M11172-2 System Origin: Scotland-ODM
      Source Film: 991230

      ADDED: From Cullen MI website:

      (14) Here lies interred the remains of JANE JAMIESON, spouse of WALTER OGILVIE, Burgess of Cullen who died upon the 14th day of June, 1760, in the 73rd year of her age. The remains of the said WALTER OGILVIE lies also buried here, who died upon the 23rd day of March, 1771, in the 77th year of his age.

      If this is accurate, Jane was born c 1687 & Walter was born c 1694
      Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 10-12-11, 23:20.
      Liz

      Comment


        #4
        I got very muddled trying to compare the three sites, but there is also this lot to consider!!

        http://thepeerage.com/p2154.htm#i21532
        Caroline
        Caroline's Family History Pages
        Do not do to others what angers you if done to you by others. Socrates

        Comment


          #5
          Caroline - thank you for reading this. Moggie and I have been trying to get our heads round it for days now.

          Your site clearly gives the children of James Ogilvie and Ann daughter of Hugh 7th Earl of Eglinton as Patrick & James with no mention of Margaret and Anne (later Coull). Do sites like this not mention the daughters because they don't inherit the titles?

          Margaret & Anne are said to be the daughters on the History of Antigua site.

          Another thing that bothered me...would the Earl of Lindlater let his daughter marry a local merchant?

          Moggie kindly downloaded from Scotlandspeople the Will of Patrick Coull. Unfortunately it is mainly an inventory for auction. But looking at what he sold, he wasn't a very wealthy man. With the IGI entries above and no mention of Anne on these peerage websites, it has made Moggie and I wonder whether this link to the local aristocracy was a family myth.

          The tree put on the History of Antigua was supplied by a Coull descendant of Patrick & Anne Coull to the author and he admitted his memory was not accurate on everything.
          Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 10-12-11, 10:10.
          Liz

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Liz from Lancs View Post
            Caroline - thank you for reading this. Moggie and I have been trying to get our heads round it for days now.

            Your site clearly gives the children of James Ogilvie and Ann daughter of Hugh 7th Earl of Eglinton as Patrick & James with no mention of Margaret and Anne (later Coull). Do sites like this not mention the daughters because they don't inherit the titles?

            Margaret & Anne are said to be the daughters on the History of Antigua site.

            Another thing that bothered me...would the Earl of Lindlater let his daughter marry a local merchant?

            Moggie kindly download from Scotlandspeople the Will of Patrick Coull. Unfortunately it is mainly an inventory for auction. But looking at what he sold, he wasn't a very wealthy man. With the IGI entries above and no mention of Anne on these peerage websites, it has made Moggie and I wonder whether this link to the local aristocracy was a family myth.
            That was partly why I posted it for you - the daughters are mentioned in other families. The citations seem to suggest that the sources should be reasonably accurate. I think you may be right and there was some wishful thinking about connections to the aristocracy.

            The site has a discussion group and the owner invites contacts - I see it has been updated this week, so there may be more information to come of course.
            Caroline
            Caroline's Family History Pages
            Do not do to others what angers you if done to you by others. Socrates

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you Caroline. Will think about contacting the website.

              Just adding the Wiki contribution on the Earl of Findlater & Seafield:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Seafield
              Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 10-12-11, 10:18.
              Liz

              Comment


                #8
                daughters of minor aristocracy and the landed gentry are hardly ever mentioned in the peerage and other such compilations. reason being, the people who compiled them (the aristocracy) where sent forms to fill in. it is especially common in scotland to get "the wife of john matheson being a daughter of mckenzie of kintail". hardly ever is the wife's christian name known.

                the queen mother copped a lot of bs a few years back when it was discovered she had nieces in mental institutions and their peerage entries claimed they had died, even giving dates and places of deaths for these ladies. apparently their mother had filled out the peerage forms, and the official line was that 'she was confused by what the questions were asking of her'. after the scandal came to light, the royal family never once visited the women either.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thank you kyle, this is all new to me - I am used to a tree full of labourers, miners, ag labs, etc .

                  ADDED: If you look at the transcription above of the Earls of Findlater line, the third earl died 1711 . We know from the M. I. Cullen, that the wife of Patrick Coull, merchant, was born about 1721.

                  Therefore she cannot be the daughter of the third earl as he had died 10 years before her birth. ?QED.
                  Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 10-12-11, 14:46.
                  Liz

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Have just found this online book Vol 2 Scots Peerage 1846-1931. In first part of book, a lot on Ogilvies. Find these easier to read after downloading to my Kindle software on my pc.

                    http://www.archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun02paul

                    Also a vol 9, which will look at soon - might be of use:

                    http://www.archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun09paul
                    Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 10-12-11, 23:43.
                    Liz

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Liz from Lancs View Post
                      Search of Fam Search IGI finds an Ann Ogilvie with the right year of birth 1721:

                      Ann Ogilvie
                      Bap: 10/7/1721 Cullen. Birth: 10/7/1721
                      Fa: Walter Ogilvie Mo: Jean Jame(i)son

                      Indexing Project (Batch): C11150-2 System Origin: Scotland-ODM Source Film: 990822

                      Her brothers on IGI with same parents:

                      Thomas Ogilvie Birth and Bap: 21/7/1722 Cullen.

                      Robert Ogilvie Birth and Bap: 28/9/1729 Cullen.

                      Marriage of parents: Walter Ogilvie & Jean Jamison 3/12/1720 Auchindoir & Kearn, Aberdeen.

                      Indexing Project (Batch): M11172-2 System Origin: Scotland-ODM
                      Source Film: 991230

                      ADDED: From Cullen MI website:

                      (14) Here lies interred the remains of JANE JAMIESON, spouse of WALTER OGILVIE, Burgess of Cullen who died upon the 14th day of June, 1760, in the 73rd year of her age. The remains of the said WALTER OGILVIE lies also buried here, who died upon the 23rd day of March, 1771, in the 77th year of his age.

                      If this is accurate, Jane was born c 1687 & Walter was born c 1694
                      If I have read correctly the Ogilvie line on the first post I did, the eldest son, Walter, of James, 3rd earl of Findlater died before his father. It doesn't indicate if he married.

                      If the IGI above is correct for our Anne Coull nee Ogilvie, just wanted to check if there was a marriage on the Hon. Walter (Lord Deskford) and this came up on IGI Marriage:

                      Walter Ogilvy & Mary Hendersone
                      Marriage: 08 Mar 1693 Marriage Place: Deskford,Banff,Scotland

                      Indexing Project (Batch): M11151-2 System Origin: Scotland-ODM Source Film: 990823

                      Have quickly checked if any baps for children in Banff with parents of those names and within right dates. None in Deskford. Some in Banff, with just father's name on of Walter. No sons called Walter who could have been our Burgess of Cullen born 1794.
                      Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 11-12-11, 00:11.
                      Liz

                      Comment


                        #12
                        This is a useful resource which can access in Britain by typing in your public library card ref. The Oxford Book of National Biography. Here is another claimant to that earl of Findlater lapsed title:

                        http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/articl...4&anchor=match

                        'Ogilvie, James (1760–1820), scholar, who claimed connection with the Ogilvys, earls of Findlater, was born in Aberdeen, and was educated there. He may be the James Ogilvie who graduated at King's College, Aberdeen, in 1790. He emigrated to the United States, where he ran a school, first in Milton, Virginia, and then in Richmond. He left the impression of being ‘a man of singular endowments’, gifted with ‘the power of rousing the mind from its torpor and lending it wings’ (Southern Literary Messenger, 14).

                        He closed the school in 1809 and retired to a remote Kentucky cabin, where he wrote lectures, rebutting the theories of Godwin, and depending to some extent for his living on financial help from former pupils. He lectured with success throughout Virginia and the Atlantic states and was employed as a lecturer at the South Carolina College in 1815.

                        He returned to Scotland to claim the lapsed earldom of Findlater as a relative of James Ogilvy, the last earl of Findlater and Seafield of the Ogilvy line, who had died at Dresden in 1811. His claim, however, was not entertained. Constitutionally sensitive and excitable, and worn out with narcotics, he was believed to have committed suicide in Aberdeen on 18 September 1820.'
                        Liz

                        Comment


                          #13
                          And in the same Oxford Book of Biogs, the St John Ogilvie's life has full account:

                          Ogilvie, John [St John Ogilvie] (1578/9–1615), Jesuit, the eldest son of Walter Ogilvie of Drum (and later perhaps of Milton), was born in Strathisla, Banffshire.

                          http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/articl...2&anchor=match
                          Liz

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Although not posted anything, Moggie is working away at trying to find some links from this extract in The History of Antigua, Francis Coull's letter:

                            “A Dr Coull (He seems to have been a well-known Medical man, as I see the name quoted in an old medical work). His daughter was a famous beauty (called the rose, or some flower, of Scotland), she married the Earl of Dunbar.

                            Your Grand-father, Thomas C, M.D, was assistant to him until he arrived at middle age, when he came out first to his Uncle William in St Vincent, and then to his father, James, in Antigua; my mother had a romantic notion that he had been in love with his cousin, and came out to heal his broken heart when she married the Earl....”

                            Moggie has found a James Coull M.D in various sources which point to him being of Ashgrove, county Elgin, Scotland. His parents were Rev. Alexander Coull & Elizabeth Ogilvie who married in 1755. No year of birth for James but he died in 1831.

                            He could possibly be the James Coull listed in “Steel's original and correct list of the royal navy” as being a physician to His Majesty’s Fleet.

                            He married Jean Dunbar in 1792. Nine children for this couple on Family search.

                            Helen one of his daughters married Sir James Dunbar on 2nd Feb 1814 Auldearn, Nairn, Scotland. Sir James Dunbar born 12/2/1770 Boath, Auldearn, Nairnshire, became a Baronet in Sept 1814. He died 5/1/1836 Boath. He was a captain in the Royal Navy in 1802 so perhaps that is how he met the fair Helen - via her father who possibly worked as a doctor with the R.N.

                            Date-wise this fits in quite well with Thomas MD going to his uncle in St Vincent, possibly in 1812/1813 when he heard that Helen intended to marry James, hence the “romantic notion” that T C had been in love with her.
                            Liz

                            Comment


                              #15
                              10.01.2021: ADDED: For all the info and gathered information, please see my blogs on here about the Coulls.

                              My blogs>Liz's blogs. Sorry if I haven't managed to reply to anyone's messages - please message again.
                              Liz

                              Comment

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