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Coull family in Antigua & Cullen, Banff, Scotland

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    Coull family in Antigua & Cullen, Banff, Scotland

    10.01.2021: ADDED - Please see my blogs on the Coulls and Butcher here on FTF for all the information obtained, along with a lot of history too.

    My Blogs>Liz's Blogs. If I haven't responded to messages in the past, please message me again.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    This thread follows on from my request to find Eleanor Coull (nee Butcher) after 1861 which has now been resolved with some very interesting finds.

    A brief recap on the family:

    William Coull (Eleanor’s husband) was the son of Thomas Coull, a book seller, & Emily his wife.
    William was baptised on 6/11/1831 at St Martin-in-the Fields, Westminster.
    We believe, but not proved that Thomas Coull died in 1835 age 39 (1796). IGI record.

    The family has not been found in *1841 & in 1851 Emily was a widow. One of the sons, Thomas born 1830 has poss been found in 1841 at the Caledonian Asylum Sch and I am awaiting a reply from them with further info.

    About 1870 William Coull, wife, daughter & his brothers Thomas (1830) & James Francis (1834) and their wives, went to New Zealand. Information from Paperspast. I am waiting to hear from living descendants of Thomas b1830.

    William died in New Zealand in 1917 age 86 & a small item in his obituary has now moved the search on to the West Indies. Quote “..went out to the West Indies when a lad & spent several years there with an uncle.”

    So we are now trying to find a link between Thomas Coull born c1796 (William’s father) & the Coulls in the West Indies which starts on Eleanor’s thread, link below, on Page 6 post # 52:

    http://www.familytreeforum.com/showt...ter-1861/page6

    Pages & posts below specifically related to the Coulls in the West Indies:
    P 6 post 52
    P 7 post 61
    P 8 post 76 77 78
    P 9 post 83 86 88 89
    P 10 post 91 94 95 96 97 98
    P 11 post 110

    * Help with finding the Coull fam in 1841 would be appreciated. It is likely the Coulls originate (at some point in their history) in Scotland.

    The family: (the chl all b St Martin-in-the-Fields, Westminster, London):

    Thomas Coull ?b1796 ?d1835 Westminster, London. Bookseller

    Wife: Emily (Caroline) b 1810 Thames Ditton, Surrey

    Son: Thomas b 1830 Son: William b1831

    Son: James Francis b1834. (In one record, his names are reversed, and another called Frank)

    Their address in 1851 was 34 Freeling St, Islington. They ? lived in St M in the F as the children were bap there up to 1834 and put this as their birthplaces on subsequent censuses.
    Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 01-12-11, 15:53.
    Liz

    #2
    Hi Liz
    I am going to start the ball rolling on this thread by posting an Administration that we found in the book History of Antigua.

    Administration of Mr Wm Coull, decd. Thomas
    Coull, Dr of Physic, and Peter Coull the Lawful Attornies
    of Margaret Gordon, wife of Patrick Gordon, Isabella Coull,
    Spinster, Ellen Nuncie (?) widow, the natural and lawful
    sisters and three of the next of kin, to William Coull,
    formerly of the Island of St. Vincent and of Cullen in
    North Britain, decd, for the use of the above respectively
    residing at Cullen. Signed Charles, Archbishop of Canter-
    bury, etc. *Died 1815. Property £7000. **Westwood Est.
    * Died at Cullen, Banffshire 30th Sept 1815.
    ** Westwood Estate was in Antigua.

    The above is just an administration,do you think William Coull left a will?
    I have looked on Scotlandspeople & TNA & can't find anything. As he had property in Scotland & abroad is there somewhere else we should be looking?
    We don't know if the deceased William Coull ever married.
    As his 3 sisters were named as next of kin would this rule out him having any children?

    Moggie

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Moggie - that is a good find. I am just following behind you at the moment writing up what you are finding...hope someone else can answer the last questions posed.

      ADDED: On the pedigree, Wm has a line for marriage but no named wife. His son is named as Colonel Coull who claimed the Earldom of Findlater in 1846. Wonder if that is route to go down?
      Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 02-12-11, 08:28. Reason: updated
      Liz

      Comment


        #4
        The above is just an administration,do you think William Coull left a will?
        Usually when it is an Administration, it means that there was no will, but the deceased had property/estate/money and this needed to be sorted out legally. (I think!!).

        (and usually all the information you get from an Admon is all there was)
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


          #5
          Here is my transcript of the pedigree of the Coulls in Antigua,The History of Antigua (online free book): Vol 1 & pages 177-181. There are 3 volumes of the History, the last one couldn't find any Coull refs.

          Vol 1:

          http://www.archive.org/details/historyofislando01oliv

          I have added a few minor details from IGI and other sources. Hope I haven't had too many lapses of concentration. Moggie has done more research and her findings are added:

          PATRICK COULL of Cullen, Banff, Scotland
          ADDED: died 1784 Cullen

          Married Ann Ogilvie, dau of 3rd Earl of Lindlater.
          ADDED: Born c 1721 died 29/10/1764 age 44 Cullen.

          Their children:

          1. (Rev) James Coull, M.A. born 21/6/1748 Cullen d ?1829 Antigua

          ADDED: 2. Jean Coull born 6/2/1750 Cullen

          ADDED (position changed from No 4 Margaret still alive in 1815, married Patrick Gordon)
          3. Margaret born 2/2/1752 Cullen still alive in 1815, married Patrick Gordon.
          Children: Jean Gordon bap 30/8/1792 Fordyce Banff
          Patrick Gordon bap 30/8/1793 Fordyce Banff

          4. William (added: born 2/12/1753 Cullen) died Cullen 30/9/1815.
          Administration to his 3 sisters. Left Scotland with James and settled in St Vincent. Must have returned to Scotland, where he died.

          He appears to have been married but wife’s name not known. Son of that union was Colonel Coull, who in 1846 claimed the Earldom of Findlater.

          5. Isabella spinster in 1815. (added: born 13/4/1756 Cullen)

          6. Anne born 4/10/1759 Cullen died in infancy.

          7. Ellen married Mr Nuncie.
          ADDED: Helen/Ellen born 15/7/1761 Cullen married John Runcie

          son 1.James Runcie born 10/8/1791 Cullen
          son 2.Thomas Olgilvie Runcie born 2/9/1797

          One of these 2 sons was said to have died suddenly by the sword in Antigua.

          ADDED changed from No 3 to No 8 Male who settled in St Lucia, owned Roseau estate.

          REV JAMES COULL owner of Crabbs (237 acres). Ancestry: owned 899 slaves.
          Rector of St Peter & St George, Antigua from 1809-1828. Went to Antigua in ?1773.

          Marriage 1: to Elizabeth Their children:

          1. William bur: 14/2/1780

          2. Thomas (Physician, M.D.) born 12/2/1775 bap 16/5/1775 St George’s, Antigua.

          Marriage 2: to Mary on 3/7/1784 St George’s, Antigua. No children.

          THOMAS COULL (Physician, M.D.) Made a Citizen of London.
          He and family were in England in 1832, back in Antigua 1835-1839 & back in England (London) in 1841.

          ADDED: Died 13/9/1852 Antigua.

          Marriage 1: 30/9/1818 St Peter’s, Antigua to Ann Lydia Matilda Rogers. She was buried 11/1/1823 St George’s, Antigua.

          Their children:

          1. William Anne born about 1823 bap: 9/1/1823 St Peter’s, Antigua. Died 29/4/1890 Dominica. Sold Crabbs, the family estate. J.P. Vice-President of Legislative Council of Antigua 1882.

          2. James born ?10/1819, bap 3/10/1819 St George’s, Antigua.

          3. Thomas Rogers (this is his mother’s maiden name) bap: 30/3/1821 St George’s, Antigua. Buried: 14/11/1827 St George’s.

          4. Alicia buried: 4/10/1825 St Peter’s.

          Marriage 2: 18/2/1830 St Peter’s, Antigua to Elizabeth Mary Langford born ?1796
          (widow of barrister Anthony Wyke)

          Their children:

          1. James George born about 1833. He married daughter of ……Ruan of St Croix.
          Their daughter, Nellie, was living in St Vincent in 1891.

          ADDED: Ellen Ruan was born on 15 March 1834. She was married on 14 September 1859, in the Christiansted Anglican Church, to James George Coull.


          2. Francis bap 29/4/1839 St Peter’s, Antigua. In 1891 a bachelor, living at Seberly Lodge, St Vincent.

          3. Elizabeth Adelaide bap 3/2/1836 St Peter’s and 25/4/1835 St John’s, Antigua. (?)
          In 1891 living St Vincent. She married Thos Burder Musgrave (of Antigua) and had 1 son and 3 daughters.

          WILLIAM ANNE COULL married Joyce Musgrove, sister of Thos B. She died 1/4/1871 and buried at St George’s.

          Their children:

          Mary born 7/9/1849

          Joyce born 25/10/1850

          Thomas Anthony born 14/9/1852 died 17/1/1855

          Florence bap 20/9/1854 St Peter’s, Antigua.

          Ellen bap: 8/2/1856, died 1889.

          William bap 8/12/1857 St Peter’s, Antigua.
          In 1891 he lived in Dominica. Was a J.P., member of Assembly ‘since 1883’.

          Zoe born ?1861, died 21/1/1876 buried St George’s, Antigua.

          Elizabeth Mary Langford born 1/10/1861, died 22/10/1889
          Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 02-12-11, 13:39. Reason: updating
          Liz

          Comment


            #6
            I think Moggie has probably explored all these avenues but the closest link to our Wm Coull b1831 St M in the F, Westminster is in 1841. Thos Coull, the physician, with his family are staying in Westminster, in the area where Wm's family lived.

            Moggie posed the hypothesis that Thomas M.D. took Wm back with him to Antigua, where he stayed for a few years. If Wm went in 1841, he would have been 10.

            Moggie found this entry which could relate to the return journey of William b1831:

            From The Standard 21/9/1846.The Royal Mail steamship Avon arrived Southampton Saturday night. Passengers from Antigua: Mr William Coull & Mr Hart.

            So if that is him, we know he left (if he did with Dr Coull) between census 1841 and about 1844, as 'he spent a few years in the W. Indies as a lad'.

            Can these options be checked (Moggie, sorry if you have done them):

            1. Passengers Lists from ?Southampton to Antigua between 3/1841 and about 12/1844 for Dr Coull, any of his family who were with him in London (see above post) and William b1831.

            2. Check if Dr Thomas Coull born 1775 is on Ancestry's new: London, England, Freedom of the City Admission Papers, 1681-1925. On Joy's thread about this, Heather has found:

            From book 'My Ancestors were Freemen of the City of London' p22 by Vivienne E. Aldous that:

            'In order to become a freeman of the City before 1835, a person had first to become a freeman of a city livery company.'

            Would a doctor be a freeman of a livery company? Is being made a Citizen of London the same as being made a Freeman?

            [From various records, Moggie has ascertained Dr Thomas was 'in England in 1832, back in Antigua 1835-1839, then in London by 1841 census.]

            3. Do open search on Ancestry for Dr Coull and family in 1851 census and open search to see what comes up.

            I am sorry to keep passing this on to others but it is not worth me taking subs out for this - so many thanks to Moggie and anyone else helping with this.
            Liz

            Comment


              #7
              Colonel Coull (above) claimed the Earldom of Findlater. There is a website about the Earldom, although it doesn't help our quest.

              http://www.findlater.org.uk/Earls.htm

              Found this about Patrick (the top of the pedigree above) on MI Cullen website:

              http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sheena_charles/CullenMI.htm

              'This stone is erected by PATRICK COULL, Merchant in Cullen, to the memory of his beloved wife, ANN OGILVIE, who died the 29th Oct., 1764, aged 43.
              Also, ANN COULL, their daughter, who died in hir infancy.'

              ADDED: From same website: (90) This stone es heir in memory of THOMAS COULL, in Shirralds, and his wife MARGARET RUNCIE. May 28, 1740.
              Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 02-12-11, 13:14.
              Liz

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                Usually when it is an Administration, it means that there was no will, but the deceased had property/estate/money and this needed to be sorted out legally. (I think!!).

                (and usually all the information you get from an Admon is all there was)
                Hi Julie
                Wouldn't there be a record of this somewhere even if it was an admon?
                Where do you look for Scottish wills? I looked on Scotlandspeople for a will for Patrick Coull died 1784 but nothing comes up. Perhaps I am doing something wrong in the info I am putting in.
                Moggie

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                  Hi Julie
                  Wouldn't there be a record of this somewhere even if it was an admon?
                  Where do you look for Scottish wills? I looked on Scotlandspeople for a will for Patrick Coull died 1784 but nothing comes up. Perhaps I am doing something wrong in the info I am putting in.
                  Moggie
                  I don't know Moggie, I know that there are things like that on Ancestry, but not sure whether thats just England or not, and/or when the dates run from. I'll have a look to see if I can find anything.. maybe Google could throw up some ideas?? apologies for my slow typing as my main puter is down atmo and I am having to use a very small netbook and the keybord is TINY.
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                    #10
                    hmmn this is interesting

                    UK, Extracted Probate Records about Coull, Patrick
                    Text: Coull, Patrick, late merchant in Cullen 23 Nov 1784
                    Book:Mort Roll from 1781 in the Register House, Edinburgh. (Death)
                    Collection: Lanarkshire, Aberdeenshire, Banff, Ayr, & Stirling: - Commissariot Record of Hamilton and Campsie, Register of Testaments, 1564-1800

                    http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...robate&indiv=1
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hi
                      I've found it now on Scotlandspeople
                      1 COULL PATRICK 23/11/1784 LATE MERCHANT IN CULLEN ABERDEEN COMMISSARY COURT CC1/6/50A
                      Moggie

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Moggie - well done! Can it be accessed on there?

                        Thank you for the additional info you have found on the pedigree (above). Have put your findings on as clear additions so we can keep it all in one place.
                        Liz

                        Comment


                          #13
                          it costs 5 pounds i think per will on sp? i cant remember my login details, and you need them to search for wills.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            kyle - most websites usually have a facility when you log in to send to your e mail your log in details if you have forgotten them. Is that the case with SP?

                            I have just found this free online book, which lists the pedigrees of the Scottish peerage, including the earldom of Findlater. Seems to stop ahout 1770 for the Ogilvies so no trace of our Colonel Coull claiming the earldom in 1846:

                            http://www.archive.org/stream/scotsp...luoft_djvu.txt
                            Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 07-12-11, 10:25.
                            Liz

                            Comment


                              #15
                              1. Passengers Lists from ?Southampton to Antigua between 3/1841 and about 12/1844 for Dr Coull, any of his family who were with him in London (see above post) and William b1831.

                              Hi Liz
                              I don't know if there are any online passenger lists this early. Findmypast outgoing passenger lists start in 1890 & Ancestry incoming I think start c1870.
                              I was lucky to find William Coull returning from Antigua in 1846 in a newspaper listing.
                              The problem with searching for Coull in the newspapers is that there was a ship named Coull so every time I click on an item i.e shipping news it turns out to be the ship not a person:(
                              Moggie

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Here is an interesting book free online: The Annals of Banff:

                                http://www.archive.org/stream/annals...mgoog_djvu.txt

                                Been scrolling through. Having to sign off for a while now.
                                Liz

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Dr Coull was back in Antigua by December 1834.
                                  Bringing in a bill in the Legislature about fugitive slaves.
                                  I'll keep trying to see if I can find him coming back pre 1841.
                                  Moggie

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Moggie - have found another will on this St Vincent ancestry site:

                                    http://svgancestry.com/index.php/st-...s-in-scotland/

                                    RUNCIE, Helen, Mrs. – alias Coull Residing at Cullen Widow of John Runcie Planter at Island of St.Vincent – 25 March 1845 – Banff Sheriff Court

                                    Someone...please tell me to switch my computer off .
                                    Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 02-12-11, 14:57.
                                    Liz

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                                      1. Passengers Lists from ?Southampton to Antigua between 3/1841 and about 12/1844 for Dr Coull, any of his family who were with him in London (see above post) and William b1831.

                                      Hi Liz
                                      I don't know if there are any online passenger lists this early. Findmypast outgoing passenger lists start in 1890 & Ancestry incoming I think start c1870.
                                      I was lucky to find William Coull returning from Antigua in 1846 in a newspaper listing.
                                      The problem with searching for Coull in the newspapers is that there was a ship named Coull so every time I click on an item i.e shipping news it turns out to be the ship not a person:(
                                      Moggie
                                      Thanks for trying...wouldn't there just be a ship called Coull!
                                      Liz

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by maudarby View Post
                                        Dr Coull was back in Antigua by December 1834.
                                        Bringing in a bill in the Legislature about fugitive slaves.
                                        I'll keep trying to see if I can find him coming back pre 1841.
                                        Moggie
                                        Thanks Moggie...don't forget to have some breaks from your computer .
                                        Liz

                                        Comment

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