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ELEANOR COULL nee Butcher born 1838 St Pancras - can you help me find her after 1861.

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  • Hi Liz
    Are you anywhere near an LDS Family History Centre? Just thinking you could hire the film to see how old the Thomas Coull was who died in 1835 St Martin-in-the Fields.


    Moggie

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    • Moggie - thank you for the suggestion. I am unable to go physically into centres, etc so that one is out for me.
      Liz

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Liz from Lancs View Post
        Moggie - thank you for the suggestion. I am unable to go physically into centres, etc so that one is out for me.
        Hi Liz
        So the only other option is to get the info from Westminster archives. I don't know how much that would cost, I think the film from LDS would have cost £7-50 unless it's gone up recently. Without a year of birth it's very hard to start to trace him. I'm guessing he would have been at least 21 when he married, maybe much older & the only thing we have to go on for Emily was the age 41 she gave in 1851 giving a birth year of c1810. Of course she may have been slightly older.
        Moggie

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        • Moggie - I know you will have eliminated this James Coull b1833 Middx in 1841 but can I double check. I can't acess the record but he is showing up on Ancestry search.

          You would have checked James Cale b1834 Middx too, I know...can't help feeling they are in the records but with an obscure mistranscription of their surname.

          By 1851, Emily and her sons were at: 34 Freeling St, Islington. Could they have moved there by the 1841 census?
          Liz

          Comment


          • Originally posted by maudarby View Post
            Hi Liz
            So the only other option is to get the info from Westminster archives. I don't know how much that would cost, I think the film from LDS would have cost £7-50 unless it's gone up recently. Without a year of birth it's very hard to start to trace him. I'm guessing he would have been at least 21 when he married, maybe much older & the only thing we have to go on for Emily was the age 41 she gave in 1851 giving a birth year of c1810. Of course she may have been slightly older.
            Moggie
            I think it costs £4 but I would rather wait to hear from the Coull descendant in NZ first before forking out any money. Am on strict budget having moved house last year... Thanks again for the suggestion.
            Liz

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            • Hi Liz
              2 James Cales born 1833 & 1834 show up in Middlesex in 1841 but when you look at the images they are both Coles & with families.
              If you get a good response from the Caledonian Asylum school it may give the info that you need.
              Moggie

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              • Hi Liz
                It says on Findmypast that you can do an address search for the 1841 census. The 4 streets in the enumeration district (51) for the 1851 census are Twyford St, Stanmore St, Bingfield St & Freeling St but none of these throw up any results. I'm wondering if some of the Islington pieces are missing.
                Moggie

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                • Moggie - I remember years ago, before FTF existed I think, Merry on GR told me some of the Islington census pieces were missing but I think they were a bit later than 1841. Thanks for looking again at the 1841.

                  I had a thought...I will put a request on the other Research Section and ask if anyone is going to a FHS centre and can do the look up on Thomas Coull's death in 1835. Would they have to pay to hire the film, do you know?

                  ADDED: Just searched on IGI. Was this the one you meant:

                  IGI: Thomas Coule Burial Date: 20 /11/1835 Burial Place: Westminster, Middx
                  Age: 39 Birth Date: 1796

                  Indexing Project (Batch): B01602-8
                  System Origin: England-EASy
                  Source Film: 561152
                  On the main index, residence is: Martin, which is probably Martin-in-the-Fields.

                  Moggie - would you be able to find his burial on Ancestry London burials? Just searched and St Martin-in-the-Fields, Westminster is not covered for the year 1835. Grrr.

                  ADDED: Birth search IGI for above spelling and Coull born around that time, Antigua, Scotland and nothing – nil.
                  Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 30-11-11, 16:56.
                  Liz

                  Comment


                  • Hi Liz
                    The one I found was Thomas Coull buried 29th Nov 1835 St Martin-in -the Fields. no age but the two entries are so similar that they must relate to the same person. So he was a lot older than Emily. Going back to the Rev James Coull, as far as I can see apart from the son William who died Thomas M.D was his only child. Rev James' brother William died back in Scotland in 1815, not known if he ever married & there is only a portion of his will in the book.The book also mentions another brother who it was said went to St Lucia. No name, no more info.
                    Where do we go from here?
                    Moggie

                    Comment


                    • Hi Moggie...have just gone over the W Indies part of this thread and my notes. I didn't know there was a link between Rev James and Thomas MD Coull. I had thought when you put this quote a few pages back that it meant Thomas the MD had a father, Thomas, who was a citizen of London:

                      Quote: I thought this bit was quite interesting, it's referring to Thomas Coull M.D.:

                      'Thomas Coull (my Father) was a Citizen of London ; this I believe carries certain privileges with it to his descendants.'

                      There was the IGI submitted entry for a male Coull born 1750 Cullen, Banff, died St Lucia, Antigua (no other details), which sounds like the brother you mention of Rev James.

                      I think it is incredible how far we have got with the Antigua Coulls (mainly your hard work ).

                      1841 census on our Coull family...wondered whether to put a new research thread up asking other to help us try and find them, although I doubt whether they can after all your different searches. Could ask them to put any replies on to this thread. What do you think?

                      I think once we get replies from the Caledonian School and the NZ Coulls, we will be able to decide whether we can go any further with this. I think it is amazing how far we have got already - the overseas research is all new to me, so your help has been really appreciated...

                      Am having to sign off for the day now.
                      Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 30-11-11, 21:02.
                      Liz

                      Comment


                      • hi liz,

                        westminster archives are really friendly, and since you have the name and date, it will be easier to find the info. i think it is 4 pounds for a copy of the registers, i had them do my whole family in the 1840's, and they were brilliant!

                        Comment


                        • Hi Kyle - it's good when you have responsive service like that, isn't it.

                          Because the Coull family married into mine and that person was a sister of my gt gt gt grandmother (I think...without checking my records), I do not want to spend any more money on them. And it is only a burial we have so won't be that much info.
                          Liz

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                          • Moggie and I have started a new thread on Research for Coull family in W Indies (Antigua) so that it will be picked up on Google and to alert FTF members of the new subject being researched now. So to follow that now, go to:

                            http://www.familytreeforum.com/showt...13#post2331813

                            Emphasize again, we are still exploring and haven't proved the link yet between the Coulls in Antigua and the New Zealand Coulls.

                            This thread will continue for ongoing info and research about the Coulls in London and New Zealand.
                            Liz

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                            • Have now heard from the living descendant in NZ and the link to the Antiguan Coulls is correct. See the Antiguan Coull thread for more details.

                              The 3 brothers who went to NZ in 1870: their father, Thomas, was the son of Dr Thomas Coull, who was the son of Rev James Coull, who was the son of Patrick Coull.

                              When I have his permission, will put up the photos of the 3 brothers and more info on this thread...
                              Liz

                              Comment


                              • I have changed the title of the Antiguan thread to include Coulls in Cullen, Banff. This will then be picked up by anyone googling for them.

                                To make life easier, can I suggest we continue on that thread and close this one now.

                                I have permission from the living descendant of Thomas Coull who went to Dunedin, NZ to pass on any info he sends me about the family. So have put it on the above thread.

                                This has been a great journey of discovery, hasn't it . Thanks again to everyone who has helped, especially Moggie.
                                Liz

                                Comment


                                • Some information from my NZ Coull descendant on Thomas Coull born 1830 St M in the Fds, son of Thomas, the bookseller:

                                  25/5/1861 Thomas Coull (son of Thomas and Caroline Emily) married Matilda Anne Vince at the Caledonian Road Chapel, Islington.

                                  I am still waiting for a reply to the e mail I sent to the Caledonian Asylum School about Thomas being there ? in the 1841 census. But that Chapel address looks promising doesn't it

                                  Could anyone looking in who has subs to Ancestry, check if this marriage is in their London Marriages. Be good to have that image and info. An afterthought, a chapel sounds like it is non-conformist (probably Presbyterian) so wouldn't be on Ancestry? Many thanks.

                                  ADDED: Ancestry lets me check the London Marr and it doesn't seem to be there or on their Non-conformist entries.
                                  Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 13-12-11, 08:52.
                                  Liz

                                  Comment


                                  • And this interesting info on Eleanor (Nellie) Coull's husband , William:

                                    '...Thomas Steele Coull (son of Thomas Charles Coull and Grace Gilchrist Nicolson) wrote of his great uncle William Coull:

                                    'William, my great uncle, was always immaculately dressed and invariable wore a flower in his buttonhole, his snow-white hair gave him a very distinguished appearance. At home he wore a black velvet smoking jacket and velvet circular cap.

                                    He was married to Nellie Butcher and they had one daughter who married a storekeeper at Portobello named Foster [later trained to be a minister]. They did not have any family.

                                    Uncle William was a real extrovert, full of fun and always doing something unconventional. The top floor of the Rattray Street building [company Coulls Culling & Co] was vacant and a previous occupant had left behind a large old fashioned three wheeled tricycle, a type never seen today. During his lunch hour he used to amuse himself riding the tricycle round this quite considerable area weaving round and round the rows of posts supporting the roof. One day he made a bad mistake and could easily have killed himself, when he and the tricycle ended up in a heap at the bottom of the flight of stairs leading to the factory.

                                    We always enjoyed our visits to his home in Highgate. It was a large property, very interestingly laid out with a single rink bowling green and a sunken glass house which was entered by a small flight of steps into the portion below garden level. The upper portion was glassed in giving quite an unusual effect. He also had a small orchard with an interesting variety of small berry and stone fruits. Inside the house had some beautiful antiques and a lovely mahogany billiard table, which also served as a dining table...'
                                    Liz

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                      hi liz,

                                      westminster archives are really friendly, and since you have the name and date, it will be easier to find the info. i think it is 4 pounds for a copy of the registers, i had them do my whole family in the 1840's, and they were brilliant!
                                      kyle - I am going to get that entry in the New Year so thank you for encouragement to contact them.
                                      Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 13-12-11, 09:20.
                                      Liz

                                      Comment


                                      • kyle - have written off to Wesminster so await the results with bated breath.

                                        Now heard from the Caledonian Asylum School. They have confirmed that the eldest Coull brother (printers who went to NZ) was at their school in 1841:

                                        Thomas Coull born 17/11/1829 Admission to School 1/6/1837 Left School 29/1/1844

                                        You have to donate £25 to obtain the records from their museum etc. So having to pass on that one but have forwarded their e mail to Thomas's direct descendant, along with the specimen school report Moggie sent me. From the school website, the children wore 'Scotch uniforms' - from pic looks sweet.
                                        Liz

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                                        • i really like the staff at the westminster archives, so i hope you get what you are after!!

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