ELEANOR COULL nee Butcher born 1838 St Pancras - can you help me find her after 1861.

[Kat]

Thomas Coull also wrote 2 books in England, published by T and W Coull in 1861 which have been re-published this year in paperback -
The History and Traditions of Islington
The History and Traditions of St Pancras
Obviously, he was the writer in the family. On William Coull and Eleanor Butcher's marriage cert, his father Thomas's profession was Bookseller - I wonder if he was a writer too?

[Liz from Lancs]

Kat - Thank you for those book details. They are on Amazon.co.uk. I have asked my public library to obtain them for me.

I have some news! Googling works and I am soon to be in touch with living descendants of Thomas Coull, still living in New Zealand. The writer of this article has forwarded my e mail from last night to B Coull's son. B Coull is interested in the family tree:


http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/otago/148202/hopes-whitcoulls-name-will-survive-administration

I have given the link to this thread...

Mods: thought it okay to give B's name as it is on the web already in the above article. Remove it if you think right to do so.

[maudarby]

Hi Liz
A bit more info about the William who married Joyce Musgrave.
From Oxford University Alumni
William Anne Coull 1st son of Thomas, of Isle of Antigua, D.Med. Queens Coll.matric 3rd April 1841 age age 18 (born c1823).
So therefore not a brother of your Thomas (senior)

Moggie

[Liz from Lancs]

Thanks Moggie...have just sent a mail to Chrissie who is contacting the GR man.

Edit: sent another mail with the above info but asking if he has researched the Coulls in Antigua. Might be worth a shot.

Added: Decided to hang fire with this for now.

[Liz from Lancs]

In 1910 Papers Past, the estate of the late Thomas Coull was £6,853 and of the late James Francis Coull it was £3,976.

In those days, that was a lot of money. They certainly worked hard for it.

[Liz from Lancs]

Just putting some snippets gained from various websites. For anyone new looking in, we are just trawling in Antigua to see if we can trace an 'uncle' young Wm Coull born 1831 London stayed with as a child:

1. James Coull arrived in Antigua in 1773 (ww.houseofnames.com)

2. From website with Johnson's accounts of history of Antigua from 1635:

1825: 13 sq miles, 4660 inhabitants. J Coull, rector of St Peter & St George, N A Gilbert, M.A., officiating at ST Peter’s on his own estate. S A Warner, assistant curate for both parishes. 1 Church, 250 sittings. N Gilbert’s chapel 350 sittings.

Back to the known Coulls:

From the Papers Past: At some point, Thomas Coull was superintendent of St Andrews Presbyterian Church School and his brother, William, was superintendent of the Moray Place Congregational Church School.

[Liz from Lancs]

James Francis Coull's daughter, Alice Emily married Henry Mandeno b1879, buried 1973.

From googling, he appears to have been a prominent architect (Mandeno & Fraser). Here is a little insight into him as a person:

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi...--10--1----0--

[maudarby]

Hi Liz
Just when I thought there was no info out there about the Coulls in Antigua I found this. There's some amazing info about the family & I am leaning more towards my "pie in the sky" idea that Thomas (senior) may have been born in the West Indies. It's going to need a lot of sorting out to turn it into some sort of tree. Moggie

http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofislando01oliv/historyofislando01oliv_djvu.txt

[Liz from Lancs]

Moggie - I have bookmarked Vol 1, 2 and 3 now of those journals. Your link takes me back to the front page. Do you know which page, your info about Thos Coull is on?

It will be interesting to see what info the descendants in N Z of Thomas Coull born 1831 London have on Thos Snr.

[maudarby]

Hi Liz
I haven't proved any link with Thomas (senior) to Antigua. If he had a brother living there who son William spent time with when he was a lad then I feel he must somehow have been connected to the other Coulls living there. The link I sent should show you the whole book although you will have to scroll down quite a way before they are mentioned.
I thought this bit was quite interesting, it's referring to Thomas Coull M.D.
Moggie

Thomas Coull (my Father) was a Citizen of London ; this I believe carries
certain privileges with it to his descendants.

[Liz from Lancs]

Moggie...that is interesting. I have done some scrolling through. It's a bit headache inducing for me, although Vol 3 is the actual book on this link, which is easier I find:

http://www.archive.org/stream/histor...ge/n9/mode/1up

It gives such an interesting insight into life there in those times doesn't it. Even if we can't find the 'missing link', it has been worth the work. Thank you for all the input you are doing at your end .

[maudarby]

Hi Liz
I think it is absolutely addictive, trying to find the missing link.
I've clicked on the link in your post but the print is far too small to read. Is there any way to enlarge it? Is this Vol 3? The only thing I can make out are the pedigrees which start at the letter P.
Moggie

[maudarby]

I've worked out how to enlarge it but the only Coulls I can see are in the index & the pages nos don't match up with the pages in this volume.
Moggie

[Liz from Lancs]

Yes, Vol 3...Moggie...I think you are right on that one and the Coulls aren't listed...

If you google rev james coull+slaves+Antigua, quite a bit comes up. I have just downloaded the free Google book Slave Trade and he is in it. The graphs of names etc are fuzzy but are clear if you read it direct on line. His letter in it:

From the Rev. James Coull

Gentlemen, Antigua, April 28th, 1824.

BY some mistake I was not honoured with your very polite letter of the ?th instant till the 25th. As there are but few African Apprentices in either of my parishes, I have baptized only one woman and two infants. And I have never been applied to, either to baptize or marry any other.

I require that adult Negroes who apply to be baptized, should know the Lord's Prayer, know something of the Apostles' Creed, and the Ten Commandments of God, as, when they are baptized, they promise to obey them. I baptized 6 African Apprentices on the 12th of April 1818, at Castries, in the island of St. Lucie, at the request of Mr. Robinson, the then Collector of the Customs there, on representing the necessity of trusting to their godfathers and godmothers having them instructed, as they would not have me then to baptize them, when they had got some little knowledge of the Christian religion.

The Roman Catholics baptize adult Negroes, I understand, in this manner, considering them as infants, in which light only the African Apprentices can be baptized by the Ministers of the Established Church or of the Sectaries.

I am sorry to inform you that I have found an adherence to their African superstitions universally prevalent among the adults, and the greatest difficulty in persuading them to relinquish them, and to worship a God of mercy instead of a God of terror. Since the abolition of the Slave trade, and the decrease of Obeah men, most of our black population are baptized, and attend either the Parish Church, the Moravian or Methodist Meetinghouses.

We are at the greatest loss for catechists to instruct them, particularly the African Apprentices, and even then their progress would be slow. It is only from the rising generation we can hope for any great improvement in religious knowledge, by being early taught to read the Testament, the Bible, and religious Tracts. As our churches are open to, and pews in them for our black population, many of them occasionally attend divine service. And as they are all considered as belonging to the Established Church, they attend when they please, or get themselves considered as in the society of the Moravians or Methodists, as we have no society.

I have, &tc. (signed) James Coull. (H. M. Comm" of Inquiry.)

He also paid the highest fee of £165 on 22/5/1821 to free Isabella Thomas.

[maudarby]

Hi Liz
Just had another brilliant find. The 1841 census image that I sent you which we both said was the wrong one well it turns out it was Thomas & family from Antigua. Living Half Moon Street. St Georges Hanover Square They were all born out of the country except James age 8 well I have just found his baptism in 1832 at Kensington. Parents Thomas Coull physician & Elizabeth Mary Langford Coull.
Below is a bit extracted from The History of Antigua that we have been looking at.

Elizabeth Mary Langford, only child and heir of
William Crowe, M.D., by Rebecca Margaret,
only child and heir of Dr. Jonas L. Blizard ;
she mar firstly Anthony Wyke, Barrister-at-Law, at St. Peter's, 19 March 1814,
who died 1819-20, she mar secondly Dr Coull 18 Feb. 1830 at St. Peter's.

Moggie

[maudarby]

Hi Liz
Just had another brilliant find. The 1841 census image that I sent you which we both said was the wrong one well it turns out it was Thomas & family from Antigua. Living Half Moon Street. St Georges Hanover Square They were all born out of the country except James age 8 well I have just found his baptism in 1832 at Kensington. Parents Thomas Coull physician & Elizabeth Mary Langford Coull.
Below is a bit extracted from The History of Antigua that we have been looking at.

Elizabeth Mary Langford, only child and heir of
William Crowe, M.D., by Rebecca Margaret,
only child and heir of Dr. Jonas L. Blizard ;
she mar firstly Anthony Wyke, Barrister-at-Law, at St. Peter's, 19 March 1814,
who died 1819-20, she mar secondly Dr Coull 18 Feb. 1830 at St. Peter's.

Moggie

P S So they were in England in 1832, back in Antigua 1835-1839 & back in England in 1841.

[Liz from Lancs]

Moggie - that is brilliant, well done for making those connections. Had you noticed who the Coulls were living with in 1841? Wonder if some of those servants were freed slaves or children of freed slaves in Antigua...

1841 census - all born out of county except James:

Thomas Coull 60 Physician
Elizabeth 45
William 15
James 8
Elizabeth 6
Francis 2

Servants – all born out of county:
Walter Sedgwick 12
Amelia Thompson 30
Charles Mutch 27

living with

William Gibson 25 Saddler born in county
Emma 25 born out of county
Marie 1 born out of county
Servants:
Hannah Rhodes 20 born out of county
Elizabeth Goddard 15 born in county
Richard Taylor 20 born in county

and children (all born out of county):

Elizabeth Fielder 6
Emily Fielder 5
Emma Fielder 2

at 23 Halfmoon St, St George’s Hanover Sq, Westminster

[Liz from Lancs]

Moggie - you are on a more productive line with Thos Coull MD especially as he stayed in Westminster in 1841.

As Dr Coulls's first son, William Ann Coull, was born 1823, Dr Coull must have been a widower when he married again in 1830.

Just to finish up on Rev James Coull. He appears to have married twice if the IGI is correct. Unless he had more children, his line would have died out by the time our Wm Coull born 1831 London stayed in the W. Indies with an uncle. If he did have more children, it could have been his son who Wm Coull b1831 stayed with.

Marriage 1: to Elizabeth mother of his son:

William b 1873 Antigua, bur: 14/2/1780 St John's, Antigua

Elizabeth must have died before Jul 1784 when he remarried:

Marriage 2: to Mary 8/7/1784 St George, Antigua.

Rev James Coull died about 1829 Antigua, going there 19/1/773 (a/c to a website for emigrating ministers). His son, Wm, must have been born soon after going out there.

[maudarby]

Hi Liz
I seem to have posted the same message twice, possibly when I added a P.S.
Maybe we shouldn't take "uncle" too literally. William's obit was written some 80? years later so the uncle referred to could have been a great uncle or an older cousin.
I think we need to have another go at finding Emily & children in 1841 although I am sure I went through all of St Martin-in-the-Fields looking for them but they could be anywhere, even Scotland!!
Thomas Coull M.D being in London in 1841 could have taken William back with him when he returned to Antigua.
In The History of Antigua it mentions another brother of James & William who went to St Lucia.
Have you heard anything back from the Caledonian Asylum School? Thomas Coull M.D may have been instrumental in getting the young Thomas a place there.

Moggie

[Liz from Lancs]

Not yet Moggie...I am trying to contain myself with waiting to hear from them and the direct descendants in Dunedin.

I am just drawing out Thos Coull's tree to help get my head round it. Realised the IGI entry for Adelaide or Elizabeth, his daughter born on 25/4/1835 St George's, Dominica, is the daughter Elizabeth born 1835 in the 1841 census.

Just thinking out loud:

If that 1841 entry for Emily Coull, the widow of Thos Snr, where she was a servant is the right one, and Thos Coull MD was in London for the 1841 census, where were William and James Francis, the other brother? It could be right that Thos Coull took our Wm back with him but it must have been after the census.