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  • Brookmill Road area, London SE8

    I am trying to research the Brookmill Road / Coldbath Street area with particular emphasis on Emmanuel Church and Blitz damage and incidents. Remember the upturned bell in Ravensbourne Park? Whatever happened to it?
    If anyone has any memories, anecdotes or, better still, photos showing the area before WWII and the Coldbath Estate area between 1946-1975 I would greatly appreciate a copy. I can be contacted at email address removed.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Darksecretz; 09-02-11, 14:56. Reason: Member safety...

  • #2
    if anyone can help Alan, would you please PM (private message) him for his email addy, I have removed this for his own safetly. (sorry Alan)
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


    • #3
      That's fine, sorry, I'm a bit new to this. Alan

      Comment


      • #4
        Alan, have you contacted the local archives office?

        Comment


        • #5
          Yep, been through the archives of Lewisham and Greenwich boroughs,the London Metropolitan archives, Imperial War Museum and the Luftwaffe records but with minimal results. The first three of those have had some material relevant to my enquiries go missing, while the majority of ARP logs were never kept.The main problem though is simply that the area I'm interested in -roughly from John Penn Street through to Elverson Road- was hardly a centre of interest and, to make matters worse, falls at the conjunction of what was then three separate boroughs (Greenwich, Lewisham and Deptford) and was of little significance to any of them. I've also contacted and interviewed a number of people that lived there from WWII onwards but, gold-dust that their testimony has been, only a handful of photos have surfaced to go with it. To date I've never seen a picture of Emmanuel church and would love to come across one even if, as is usually the case, it's background to a personal domestic pic. Thanks for the suggestion though. Alan.
          Last edited by alanm; 11-02-11, 11:04.

          Comment


          • #6
            What about Southwark archives?

            Stephen Humphrey, who was the wonderful archivist there has now left (although he still gives talks on local history). I know that he had amassed a huge amount of WW2 information as his next book is going to be covering that period in the area? Deptford is Southwark diocese.

            Anyhows, have a go, they should still have a lot of the stuff there :

            local.history.library@southwark.gov.uk.

            Just thought, you may also want to put a request on the Bermondsey Boy Forum. Just google it.

            Also the BBC forum:

            An archive of World War Two memories - written by the public, gathered by the BBC


            This is interesting too:

            Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 11-02-11, 11:51.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Alan
              Might be worth asking on this forum they seem to be coming up with some fantastic photos of old london http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=442332 I spent about 3 hours the other weekend just flicking through.

              Just to say my OH family lived in Coldbath St in the 1800's so I'd be interested in what you may find, I've also still not been able to find a pic of Emmanuel church either but one day one day....

              Comment


              • #8
                Cheers, I'll check the forum.
                Sadly, I don't have a lot of pre-WWII info on Coldbath Street. This is what I've got so far,beginning with the Penn Works at the north end of Coldbath Street: The firm was started in 1799 by John Penn Snr (1770-1843), a Bristol millwright, originally to produce agricultural machinery. The first marine engines were, I believe, produced in 1825 and under John Penn Jnr (1805-78), who took over from his father on his death. These, and the marine boilers produced at the firm's Deptford works at Palmers Payne Wharf, became the firm's main activity. The Engine Works were not on Blackheath Hill as has been erroneously claimed[1] but in Blackheath Road. Transport of the heavy engines to the Thames-side was difficult enough as Deptford Bridge and its approaches on the Greenwich side were not widened until 1878-82 under a Metropolitan improvement scheme. Had the works actually been up Blackheath Hill, the laden horse-drawn wagons could scarcely have negotiated the incline. In fact it is not strictly true to say that the Engine Works were even in Blackheath Road. Its main entrance was always in Cold Bath Lane, appropriately re-named John Penn Street in 1873/75, and for more than half of its existence it did not even have a frontage on Blackheath Road. It acquired this in 1861 when the Holwell Charity sold its Greenwich estate to Penn for the princely sum of £21,500. This enabled them to expand considerably their original Works east of Ditch Alley, to acquire an even larger site west of it, and to acquire frontages on both Blackheath Road and Lewisham Road. Shortly afterwards, two rows of houses in Blackheath Road, Cold Bath Row and Holwell Place (wrongly named Holywell Place on some maps), over 30 houses in all, were demolished in the expansion of the works.
                1871 was the year the Nunhead to Greenwich Park branch line -initially running only to Blackheath Hill- with an intermediate station at Lewisham Road, was opened. This line crossed over the North Kent line at St. Johns, beyond which it was carried by viaduct over Brookmill Road, along the embankment and over Coldbath Street before curving left to the bottom of Blackheath Hill. The line was extended to Greenwich Park in 1888
                Records show that, regarding the nearby Silk Mills, a building existed here before 1371, milling corn. During the 15th & 16th centuries the site was known to produce metal goods and armour for the military. The mill returned to milling corn in the 18th century, continuing to do so until 1807. For a short period of time the mill was then used for making armour, until silk thread manufacturing commenced in 1824. The Silk Mills, by this time addressed at Connington Road (which ran parallel to Silk Mills Path) finally gave up the ghost at the end of the twenties when F & E Stanton (Textiles) Ltd wound up in March 1926, were declared bankrupt in October 1928 and officially dissolved on 22.12.31. Much of the mill was demolished in 1937 and the site was further cleared top make way for the DLR in 1997 and yuppie flats in 2010.
                Turning left at the bottom of JP St. into Coldbath St., there used to be small houses along both sides -of which only the small row by what used to be Frances’ entrance remain. In the (two) surviving photos of the area that I’ve traced, of what little can be seen suggests two rather different developments on either side of the road although on the Booth map both sides of the street from here to Orchard Hill are catalogued as dark blue (Very poor, casual. Chronic want) contrasting with JP Street’s light blue classification ‘Poor. 18s. to 21s. a week for a moderate family’ Coldbath Street and Morden Square’s purple (Mixed. Some comfortable others poor) and John St. and South Crescent’s pink (Fairly comfortable. Good ordinary earnings). Best pictorially recorded are the odd numbers that stood where the Morden College buildings now stand. They are clearly shown as typical Victorian two-up, two-down cottages with the front door on the left, living room on the right, uniformly painted white and with a small front garden bordered with a little wooden picket-style fence. This row finished at The Olive pub –listed in the 1944 Post Office directory as ‘The Olive Branch’. Crossing the bottom of Orchard Hill, a shop is clearly evident from the picture but of what type is, sadly, not at all clear. In fact it’s impossible from my current copy to glean anything from the buildings going up the hill but I know from personal memory they were all small shops, including a newsagent and, I think, a baker’s -although more of Orchard Hill itself later.
                Further along, after passing under the disused railway arch, I’m told that on the following corner, where Coldbath St. joins Albion Hill, was a greengrocers and a butcher’s shop until the early 1960s, neither of which I remember, with terraced housing up the hill. At the bottom, opposite the Handy shop was the Ravensbourne Arms; ‘In 1882 at 30 Albion Street, Cold Bath, Greenwich; but at Lewisham by 1891’. The Post Office directories list the landlord of the Ravensbourne as being Hohebon Spencer in 1858, passing to Joseph Reeves by 1874 and kept in the family until 1901 after which it went through a number of hands
                The other side of Coldbath Street is slightly more complicated to describe but here goes. Basically, it looks like the other (west) side of the street was also a row of terraced houses pretty much like those already described -that’s certainly what the 1902 map suggests. Unfortunately, no picture showing the front of them has yet turned up so this is speculation, but, if the houses that remain are anything to go by, these would not have been painted like the ones across the road on the east. As to why, I presume this was something to do with ownership, as Morden College didn’t own those on the west. About 20 yards from what is now a cross-roads of Orchard Hill & Coldbath was John Street, named at some point between 1902 and 1936 as Airy Street, a T-shaped street whose stem (the long bit) ran more or less parallel behind Coldbath St., which it eventually joined at the bottom of Albion Hill. This is where a third road, South Crescent (later, Bliss Crescent), joined them, itself running in an extended curve following the course of the Quaggy before the river cut it off at what is now the end of the children’s play area. According to the 1936 OS map, rather than joining onto one end of Airy St., at this juncture stood a 'Metropolitan Borough Building’ -whatever that was, the rest of the street shown as similar housing to that of Coldbath St., et al. So, it appears that this mystery building might well be / or be connected to Emmanuel Church but at present this is still speculative. It is also possible that Emmanuel Church is the building with a tantalisingly impossible to read description on the 1902 map. I suspect this is so because its placement, behind the houses in John Street would place it exactly right for its remains to be where the rocks are (now) on the lawn of Bissextile House.
                The 1894 OS Map[2] tells a slightly different tale. Brookmill Road is, as with the 1936 map, still known as Ravensbourne Street, the Greenwich Park branch line is fully in place, as are the houses in Elverson Road. However, to the east, Connington Road and its terraced housing has yet to be built. Coldbath Street is fully developed; Bliss Crescent is called 'South Crescent and shows the houses flattened by bombing and replaced by Crescent House in the 1950s and Emmanuel Church is shown on the other side of the Ravensbourne just about parallel to the west end of South Crescent’s terraces. The remainder of what would become the park is cited as a recreation ground. Interestingly, while the rest of the geography is more-or-less unchanged into the 1930s except the entire T-shape of streets on which the rest of the estate would eventually be built are marked as 'John St’. The Kent Water Works land is pretty much the same too, although the iconic red-brick building had yet to be built.
                So, what had previously been a small network of streets had, by war’s end, become practically all wasteland thanks to early German bombing and what seems to have been a V1 landing on houses that ran all along Ravensbourne Street (now Brookmill Rd) where Brookmill Park stands today. Crescent House, which now stands on the site. Curiously, just about the only building to survive was a small pub -’The Sophia’ -Crescent House, which now stands on the site.
                Hope this is of some interest, please let me know of any errors.
                Regards

                Alan.



                [2] OS map; London Sheet 105, Blackheath & GreenwichPark, 1894, pub. Alan Godfrey Maps




                [1] By Peter Trigg in the October 1999 issue of Greenwich Industrial History (Vol.2, No.5) and repeated twice in the March 2003 issue (Vol.6, No.2).

                Comment


                • #9
                  I too am interested in Airy Street/Cold Bath Street Greenwich. my father was born and grew up there in Bissextile Cottage.
                  Any photo's or other information would be of great interest to me and my family.


                  Further to this earlier Post, I have now found plans showing Bissextile cottage and Duncan Cottages, but would still be
                  interested in any other information others have. There was a compulsory purchase order in 1936 for the re-development of this area.
                  Last edited by DerekWC; 26-10-13, 08:59. Reason: More information

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Cottage

                    Originally posted by DerekWC View Post
                    I too am interested in Airy Street/Cold Bath Street Greenwich. my father was born and grew up there in Bissextile Cottage.
                    Any photo's or other information would be of great interest to me and my family.


                    Further to this earlier Post, I have now found plans showing Bissextile cottage and Duncan Cottages, but would still be
                    interested in any other information others have. There was a compulsory purchase order in 1936 for the re-development of this area.
                    hi Derek -i was wondering if you could you tell me where the cottage was, I've never heard of it. As it's obviously what the subsequent block of flats was named after I wonder if it had any other significance?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good morning Alan, Thank you for the contact. Bissextile cottage was my family's home probably form the early 1900s, maybe a little earlier, until the late 1930s. You can find it on the map that you mentioned i.e. Blackheath 1914 sheet 105. If you look slightly more than half way down the sheet on the left hand side, you will see waterworks, reservoirs, and two Engine houses. just below the top Engine house is the 'horizontal' section of Airy street. Again just above the left hand terrace block is a detached larger building. This is Bissextile cottage. Family legend suggests that Bissextile was a gate house or similar to a large estate before the terraces were built, but I do not have anything to confirm this. However, I do have photographs of family in the garden. There were two households living in the cottage at one time. My great grandfather was the head of one, and my grandfather head of the other. I have contact with the daughter of one of my great uncles and she has sent me some notes about family life around 1908. I would need to have a discussion with her before I could publish it here. According to dictionaries, is derived from french and related to 'leapyear' Bissextile.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        http://www.familytreeforum.com/showt...ighlight=blitz you may find this map helpful showing all the areas of bombing during the war in London

                        Edna

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DerekWC View Post
                          Good morning Alan, Thank you for the contact. Bissextile cottage was my family's home probably form the early 1900s, maybe a little earlier, until the late 1930s. You can find it on the map that you mentioned i.e. Blackheath 1914 sheet 105. If you look slightly more than half way down the sheet on the left hand side, you will see waterworks, reservoirs, and two Engine houses. just below the top Engine house is the 'horizontal' section of Airy street. Again just above the left hand terrace block is a detached larger building. This is Bissextile cottage. Family legend suggests that Bissextile was a gate house or similar to a large estate before the terraces were built, but I do not have anything to confirm this. However, I do have photographs of family in the garden. There were two households living in the cottage at one time. My great grandfather was the head of one, and my grandfather head of the other. I have contact with the daughter of one of my great uncles and she has sent me some notes about family life around 1908. I would need to have a discussion with her before I could publish it here. According to dictionaries, is derived from french and related to 'leapyear' Bissextile.
                          Thanks Derek, I didn't know any of this. Any chance of your uploading these precious pictures (or emailing me copies) as I'd love to see what it looked like.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hello Alan, I am not sure what information you would like from me, and am concerned about copyright ownership. Another problem is that I don't know how to upload to this site. I have details of the council order dated 1936 with details of the redevelopment area and some family photos that show people and buildings.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Derek
                              Thanks for the speedy reply. In a nutshell I'd love to know all there is know about the area but realistically, knowledge of what these (so far to me and the archives) largely unrecorded buildings and streets looked like -for example, do you remember Emmanuel Church?- and any anecdotal stuff about local 'characters' or events. Basically all the stuff that's not in the available records -such as were the rocks in front of Bissextile house anything more than decorative? What are they -local legend when I was little was that they were art of Emmanuel Church but that doesn't seem plausible. All I know is that I have photographic evidence they were there before the estate was built. Anyway, things like that which help give a flavour of what life was like. As far as copyright is concerned, I am only interested in such photos for my own research. I have no intention of publishing any of it, though at the end I may donate a copy to the Greenwich Local History library. Any photos I am given (and I have a few donated by people that, like yours are basically family groups or friends in front of say, the Coldbath Street railway viaduct etc) I would have no copyright over and would be entirely belong to whoever owns the surviving print or the negative. I would also not circulate them any further without seeking permission to do so. Should I or anyone else you give copies to wish to publish or otherwise make money from it I/they must seek permission from the copyright owner or risk legal action. Incidentally, without such written permission no reputable publisher would touch them with a barge pole.
                              I assume from my knowledge of general history the council order is the result of the Ramsay MacDonald government's Housing Act of 1930 a major programme of slum clearance and council house construction initiated between 1930-35. I'd love to see the details of the document(s) you have which I presume are part of this programme -which would certainly explain the wholesale clearance of the SW Coldbath Street area in 1942, after some bombing damage, in preparation for the building of the current estate in the early 1950s.
                              Regarding the mechanics of uploading, assuming your photos are already scanned into you computer as (usually) jpegs, you will see when you type a reply there are a row of icons along the top of the reply window. Third one from the right is the one to upload the picture, looks like it's supposed to be a little picture of a tree in a frame. Simply select this, when the window opens use browse to navigate to the picture within your computer and then 'select' it and it will be uploaded.
                              Best regards
                              Alan
                              Last edited by alanm; 13-05-14, 15:14.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Hello Alan, As a start I am posting a story from my Great Uncle Thomas W Cooper. This was send to me by his daughter Mary Stafford, and appears with her permission. Thomas was the youngest in the family, and my Grandfather Benjamin the eldest. Thomas was born in 1904. Benjamin was also the name of my Great Grandfather. As I have mentioned before Mary's and my family lived in Bissextile Cottage.

                                The story is introduced by Mary Stafford:-

                                In the 1970's when my dad was still alive he wrote down a little of when he was a little boy he must have only been about 5, 6 or 7 years old at the time so here is it is roughly in his own words. His own father Benjamin Cooper died when Tom was only about 8 years old and his grandfather William Nimmo died when Tom was about 10 or 11 years old.

                                Tom also told us that when he was a little boy he had to go with his mother every week to carry home all the bags of shopping and all the other jobs he had to do, mending and cleaning shoes etc.

                                Tom "I will go back early in years to the very times my grandfather (Your great, great, great grandfather) his name was Mr Nimmo a great old gentleman. He was a clever writer of plays in which himself and his two son's Bill and Harry (Caroline Rebecca Cooper's 2 brothers) use to act at the Bernard Theatre Greenwich. Bill made all his own mandolins and believe me he could play. Harry, he could tell jokes until your face was tired of laughing, now Ida (his wife and my mum) and myself looked after some of the plays and paintings of my great grandads but they got into other hands and were destroyed".

                                "Grandad was a wonderful painter and also a Tailor, he made all us boys clothes. My grandfather I only remember him as a powerful man a strong red haired man with a beard, they said he was always ready to help anyone". "Now our family was Carrie (Caroline) Ben, Jim, Arthur, Harry, Percy and Tom that's me writing the story".

                                "The lovely home parties we had."

                                "Our lives seem to be one round of joy parties for everyone's birthday or relations call. Some garden parties my dad and grandad would take off our doors to make long tables. I have known at times to see such a lot of folks, insurance men, milkman, postman, neighbours and friends. Us boys liked it because my dad use to put a party hat on the table and everyone had to sing a song if they could not sing they would have to put a farthing in the hat for all the children after the party to share. We got a lot for a farthing at that time."

                                "My dad and grandad that is my mum's father were at home. Around our garden were many trees so when we were having a party they would put all the fairly lights up, there were night lights in coloured glass lanterns it look so nice. The Christmas parties to me were wonderful. The decorations all over the ceiling and wall were covered. We use to have big brand named tubs, they were full of all kinds of presents and all the folks would dress up in all kinds of dresses for the men and ladies. At one time I think we had wigs and costumes of everything, how we had them? They were what grandad and his 2 sons had when they were on the stage, well now I will tell you of home working life."

                                "My dad was a cattle sorter at Deptford market, Brother Jim was a baby carriage maker, Arthur was a printer, Harry and Percy was in propeller castings for big ships. My sister I only remember being married with 4 children 2 boys and 2 girls. Her husband was a drunkard. I have known a time when my dad poured beer all over him. He went into the army and he later died that is all I know about him."

                                "My older brothers Harry and Percy were in the casting pit of a ship propellers when we had the big Silvertown explosion, all the big glass roof came down on them they were very lucky they just had a few scratches."

                                "At our home we use to have horizontal bars and we use to have follow my leader, my brother Ben first and we other boys would do or try to do what he had done, up and over them then one leg spins then two leg spins."
                                "Then we would do weight lifting different weights up to 1c.w.t. anvil above our head, that came later. The next thing on the list was boxing we would have a full size ring made by my brothers and they would take it in turn and have a go at boxing."

                                "When we were all dressed we all looked smart, straw hats, sliver knob walking sticks, glossy kid shoes, silk scarves of white with black silk tummy bands with watch and chain."

                                "Percy and Harry both had nice young ladies but they both lost their lives in the 1914 war and Harry was badly wounded but thank God he got over that alright."
                                "I can say we were very good and trusting and law abiding boys and at our dear home when we were altogether I think we were one of a very happy family"

                                I hope that readers will find this interesting. I have not edited it very much for fear of spoiling its authenticity.

                                Best Regards

                                Derekwc

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by DerekWC View Post
                                  Hello Alan, As a start I am posting a story from my Great Uncle Thomas W Cooper. This was send to me by his daughter Mary Stafford, and appears with her permission. Thomas was the youngest in the family, and my Grandfather Benjamin the eldest. Thomas was born in 1904. Benjamin was also the name of my Great Grandfather. As I have mentioned before Mary's and my family lived in Bissextile Cottage.

                                  The story is introduced by Mary Stafford:-

                                  In the 1970's when my dad was still alive he wrote down a little of when he was a little boy he must have only been about 5, 6 or 7 years old at the time so here is it is roughly in his own words. His own father Benjamin Cooper died when Tom was only about 8 years old and his grandfather William Nimmo died when Tom was about 10 or 11 years old.

                                  Tom also told us that when he was a little boy he had to go with his mother every week to carry home all the bags of shopping and all the other jobs he had to do, mending and cleaning shoes etc.

                                  Tom "I will go back early in years to the very times my grandfather (Your great, great, great grandfather) his name was Mr Nimmo a great old gentleman. He was a clever writer of plays in which himself and his two son's Bill and Harry (Caroline Rebecca Cooper's 2 brothers) use to act at the Bernard Theatre Greenwich. Bill made all his own mandolins and believe me he could play. Harry, he could tell jokes until your face was tired of laughing, now Ida (his wife and my mum) and myself looked after some of the plays and paintings of my great grandads but they got into other hands and were destroyed".

                                  "Grandad was a wonderful painter and also a Tailor, he made all us boys clothes. My grandfather I only remember him as a powerful man a strong red haired man with a beard, they said he was always ready to help anyone". "Now our family was Carrie (Caroline) Ben, Jim, Arthur, Harry, Percy and Tom that's me writing the story".

                                  "The lovely home parties we had."

                                  "Our lives seem to be one round of joy parties for everyone's birthday or relations call. Some garden parties my dad and grandad would take off our doors to make long tables. I have known at times to see such a lot of folks, insurance men, milkman, postman, neighbours and friends. Us boys liked it because my dad use to put a party hat on the table and everyone had to sing a song if they could not sing they would have to put a farthing in the hat for all the children after the party to share. We got a lot for a farthing at that time."

                                  "My dad and grandad that is my mum's father were at home. Around our garden were many trees so when we were having a party they would put all the fairly lights up, there were night lights in coloured glass lanterns it look so nice. The Christmas parties to me were wonderful. The decorations all over the ceiling and wall were covered. We use to have big brand named tubs, they were full of all kinds of presents and all the folks would dress up in all kinds of dresses for the men and ladies. At one time I think we had wigs and costumes of everything, how we had them? They were what grandad and his 2 sons had when they were on the stage, well now I will tell you of home working life."

                                  "My dad was a cattle sorter at Deptford market, Brother Jim was a baby carriage maker, Arthur was a printer, Harry and Percy was in propeller castings for big ships. My sister I only remember being married with 4 children 2 boys and 2 girls. Her husband was a drunkard. I have known a time when my dad poured beer all over him. He went into the army and he later died that is all I know about him."

                                  "My older brothers Harry and Percy were in the casting pit of a ship propellers when we had the big Silvertown explosion, all the big glass roof came down on them they were very lucky they just had a few scratches."

                                  "At our home we use to have horizontal bars and we use to have follow my leader, my brother Ben first and we other boys would do or try to do what he had done, up and over them then one leg spins then two leg spins."
                                  "Then we would do weight lifting different weights up to 1c.w.t. anvil above our head, that came later. The next thing on the list was boxing we would have a full size ring made by my brothers and they would take it in turn and have a go at boxing."

                                  "When we were all dressed we all looked smart, straw hats, sliver knob walking sticks, glossy kid shoes, silk scarves of white with black silk tummy bands with watch and chain."

                                  "Percy and Harry both had nice young ladies but they both lost their lives in the 1914 war and Harry was badly wounded but thank God he got over that alright."
                                  "I can say we were very good and trusting and law abiding boys and at our dear home when we were altogether I think we were one of a very happy family"

                                  I hope that readers will find this interesting. I have not edited it very much for fear of spoiling its authenticity.

                                  Best Regards

                                  Derekwc
                                  Hi Derek,
                                  all interesting stuff and the first I've heard from this area at this time period, when my own family were living near the cattle market you mention in the Watergate Street area. Pre-WWII all I have are a couple of photos of John Penn street. -were Harry and Percy employed at the Penn Works here (or their other works down by the cattle market)?
                                  I look forward to hearing more
                                  Regards
                                  Alan

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Bissextile cottage

                                    Originally posted by alanm View Post
                                    Hi Derek,
                                    all interesting stuff and the first I've heard from this area at this time period, when my own family were living near the cattle market you mention in the Watergate Street area. Pre-WWII all I have are a couple of photos of John Penn street. -were Harry and Percy employed at the Penn Works here (or their other works down by the cattle market)?
                                    I look forward to hearing more
                                    Regards
                                    Alan
                                    Hi Derek
                                    don't know if you're still looking on this forum but I'd still love to see those photos of Bissextile Cottage if you'd be kind enough to upload them -or indeed any further vignettes of life in the Coldbath Street area.
                                    Regards
                                    Alan

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by DerekWC View Post
                                      Hello Alan, As a start I am posting a story from my Great Uncle Thomas W Cooper. This was send to me by his daughter Mary Stafford, and appears with her permission. Thomas was the youngest in the family, and my Grandfather Benjamin the eldest. Thomas was born in 1904. Benjamin was also the name of my Great Grandfather. As I have mentioned before Mary's and my family lived in Bissextile Cottage.

                                      The story is introduced by Mary Stafford:-

                                      In the 1970's when my dad was still alive he wrote down a little of when he was a little boy he must have only been about 5, 6 or 7 years old at the time so here is it is roughly in his own words. His own father Benjamin Cooper died when Tom was only about 8 years old and his grandfather William Nimmo died when Tom was about 10 or 11 years old.

                                      Tom also told us that when he was a little boy he had to go with his mother every week to carry home all the bags of shopping and all the other jobs he had to do, mending and cleaning shoes etc.

                                      Tom "I will go back early in years to the very times my grandfather (Your great, great, great grandfather) his name was Mr Nimmo a great old gentleman. He was a clever writer of plays in which himself and his two son's Bill and Harry (Caroline Rebecca Cooper's 2 brothers) use to act at the Bernard Theatre Greenwich. Bill made all his own mandolins and believe me he could play. Harry, he could tell jokes until your face was tired of laughing, now Ida (his wife and my mum) and myself looked after some of the plays and paintings of my great grandads but they got into other hands and were destroyed".

                                      "Grandad was a wonderful painter and also a Tailor, he made all us boys clothes. My grandfather I only remember him as a powerful man a strong red haired man with a beard, they said he was always ready to help anyone". "Now our family was Carrie (Caroline) Ben, Jim, Arthur, Harry, Percy and Tom that's me writing the story".

                                      "The lovely home parties we had."

                                      "Our lives seem to be one round of joy parties for everyone's birthday or relations call. Some garden parties my dad and grandad would take off our doors to make long tables. I have known at times to see such a lot of folks, insurance men, milkman, postman, neighbours and friends. Us boys liked it because my dad use to put a party hat on the table and everyone had to sing a song if they could not sing they would have to put a farthing in the hat for all the children after the party to share. We got a lot for a farthing at that time."

                                      "My dad and grandad that is my mum's father were at home. Around our garden were many trees so when we were having a party they would put all the fairly lights up, there were night lights in coloured glass lanterns it look so nice. The Christmas parties to me were wonderful. The decorations all over the ceiling and wall were covered. We use to have big brand named tubs, they were full of all kinds of presents and all the folks would dress up in all kinds of dresses for the men and ladies. At one time I think we had wigs and costumes of everything, how we had them? They were what grandad and his 2 sons had when they were on the stage, well now I will tell you of home working life."

                                      "My dad was a cattle sorter at Deptford market, Brother Jim was a baby carriage maker, Arthur was a printer, Harry and Percy was in propeller castings for big ships. My sister I only remember being married with 4 children 2 boys and 2 girls. Her husband was a drunkard. I have known a time when my dad poured beer all over him. He went into the army and he later died that is all I know about him."

                                      "My older brothers Harry and Percy were in the casting pit of a ship propellers when we had the big Silvertown explosion, all the big glass roof came down on them they were very lucky they just had a few scratches."

                                      "At our home we use to have horizontal bars and we use to have follow my leader, my brother Ben first and we other boys would do or try to do what he had done, up and over them then one leg spins then two leg spins."
                                      "Then we would do weight lifting different weights up to 1c.w.t. anvil above our head, that came later. The next thing on the list was boxing we would have a full size ring made by my brothers and they would take it in turn and have a go at boxing."

                                      "When we were all dressed we all looked smart, straw hats, sliver knob walking sticks, glossy kid shoes, silk scarves of white with black silk tummy bands with watch and chain."

                                      "Percy and Harry both had nice young ladies but they both lost their lives in the 1914 war and Harry was badly wounded but thank God he got over that alright."
                                      "I can say we were very good and trusting and law abiding boys and at our dear home when we were altogether I think we were one of a very happy family"

                                      I hope that readers will find this interesting. I have not edited it very much for fear of spoiling its authenticity.

                                      Best Regards

                                      Derekwc
                                      Hi Derek! Not sure if you still check this site but I hope so! I believe we are distant relatives, as the Coopers are part of my family too!

                                      Would love to connect and see the photo of Bissextile.

                                      Thanks,

                                      James

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                                      • #20
                                        Welcome to the forum, Derek has not visited in a very long time, he may have an active email, and a PM might ping him to say there is a message.
                                        Carolyn
                                        Family Tree site

                                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

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