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  • John_8251
    replied
    I wonder if the fact he was dead really mattered to anyone. They just wanted to seize any assets. But if it did...... then sadly his address/ place of rest was Oxbridge Lane (Cemetery). Did he ever live at No3? Or could this be the address of the Cemetery Lodge/Mortuary?

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  • Sand Dancer
    replied
    At the moment I'm awaiting replies from Durham County Library and Stockton Reference Library regarding newspaper reports and Coroner's report, if any.

    Mary, I was wondering if that might be the case, though seems odd to me that the Trustee/Accountant dealing with the case wouldn't have known, and therefore change the wording of the newspaper Notice to reflect that the chap is actually deceased rather than "...now of 3 Oxbridge Lane....".

    I'll wait to see what, if anything, comes back from these searches.

    Thanks again everyone - you are all very helpful.

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  • Mary from Italy
    replied
    Could it be that the creditors simply didn't know he'd died?

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  • Sand Dancer
    replied
    Well that's interesting Diane, because the fact that there is no mention of death with my chap, is really what's thrown a cat amongst the pigeons.

    Many thanks for that piece of information.

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  • dicole
    replied
    Hi
    I just recently looked at a bankruptcy in NSW, and yes the proceedings went ahead even though the person was deceased and no mention of his passing was recorded in the proceedings. I thought it was odd, not that the proceedings continued, as the creditors obviously wanted some redress, or their money by dividing up the estate, but that no mention was made of the death, even if only in explanation of his physical absence from the court.

    Di

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  • Sand Dancer
    replied
    Thanks both, will give those a shot.

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  • Mary from Italy
    replied
    It's worth a try, although they rarely survive. Another possibility would be to contact the local library, to see if they can find a newspaper report of the inquest.

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  • John_8251
    replied
    Maybe an email to Durham County Records Office would reveal if they hold the Coronors Record for the suicide? Certainly worth sending an email
    http://nd.durham.gov.uk/recordoffice...e+-+Contact+Us

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  • Sand Dancer
    replied
    Thanks Mary, and thanks OC.

    I'm still no further with this man.
    I found an interesting gravestones site which covers those in the cemetery at Oxbridge Lane (where the suicide case is apparently buried) but no headstone for him, just my luck! Though I did find some other, side-twig, Humbles so I suppose it wasn't a complete waste of a morning!

    I'll plod on.......

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  • Olde Crone Holden
    replied
    No, I don't know the answer but I would imagine that bankruptcy proceedings carry on after death.

    The deceased's estate would be seized by the Commissioner and it would be almost irrelevant whether the bankrupt was alive or dead. Creditors would always take precedence over legatees in a Will. If he left a Will!

    OC

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  • Mary from Italy
    replied
    Forgot to mention that I looked for him on the 1881 and 1891 censuses, and drew a blank.

    I wonder if 3 Henry Terrace and 3 Oxbridge Lane are the same address? Henry Terrace might be a small row of houses which is part of Oxbridge Lane.

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  • Sand Dancer
    replied
    Hi Jackie,

    Thanks for looking up 3 Henry Terrace, I hadn't got round to that! Too busy scouring newspaper notices for that suicide, but I've come up with nothing and got cross-eyes to boot!

    I was wondering about bankruptcy proceedings too, in the case of a death occurring mid-way, so to speak. I presume they would continue, but admit I know little of the procedure myself.
    It's the way those bankruptcy Notices are worded which gives the impression he is still alive as late as July 1881, ie "....late of Hartburn Farm, but now of 3 Oxbridge Lane...." is the standard wording right from the first Notice published 25 Feb 1881 through to the last, in July 1881. I'd have thought they would read, "deceased" after his name .
    A cat amongst the pigeons.
    I'll make enquiries with the Stockton Roots folk as you suggest, and tomorrow perhaps ring the local library and ask about a newspaper search.

    Thanks again.

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  • Night Owl
    replied
    I don't know the answer to this but does anyone else know whether bankruptcy laws in 1881 were such that if proceedings were started and then the person died, the bankruptcy process continued as if the person were still alive?

    That might explain why the Gazette notices read as if he were alive and I could imagine someone committing suicide after being declared bankrupt then. (Plus he had just lost his wife and a daughter)

    There's no one living at 3 Henry Terrace in 1881 but I can't find 3 Oxbridge Lane (unless that was the Cemetery address!)

    Is it worth contacting the Stockton Roots people to see if there is any other info in the burial register?

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  • Sand Dancer
    replied
    Yes, that Stockton Roots site is handy for the burials isn't it. I went through every John Humble and cross matched them with births, and with which family they belonged to from the census info. I think I know every Humble family in the area now! And the only one which fits the death in March 1881 is the one who is apparently still alive in July 1881.
    Very frustrating.

    I've got to give up for tonight.

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  • Mary from Italy
    replied
    I see there are loads of John Humbles buried in Stockton, and the only one whose age fits is the one you found:

    Stockton Roots BDM - Burial Search

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  • Mary from Italy
    replied
    What a pity the informant wasn't one of the family. I don't suppose there's a headstone?

    I'll PM you about the Gale site.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sand Dancer
    replied
    Got the death cert, it arrived yesterday, informant was the Coroner!!!!!!!
    The name is only given as John Humble not John Wilkinson Humble. Address given was 3 Henry Terrace, not 3 Oxbridge Lane, as given in those bankruptcy notices. Everything else falls into place though!! Durrrrrrr!

    Never heard of the Gale site, will take a look now.

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  • Mary from Italy
    replied
    On the Gale site - do you have access to it?

    I've found one or two other references to a John Humble, farmer of Hartburn, but nothing about the suicide. It does sound as though the suicide in 1881 should be him. I would tend to get the death cert to see who the informant was.

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  • Sand Dancer
    replied
    What's thrown me with this John W Humble, the bankrupt in 1881, is that I've found a death for a John Humble on 17 March 1881, Farmer, age 49, suicide, at Stockton. I've found his burial was at Oxbridge Lane cemetery, Hartburn, Stockton on 21 March 1881.
    It's so close a match, it's clouding my view!!


    P.S.
    Mary - as a matter of interest, how did you find that newspaper report, I'm useless and couldn't find a thing.
    Last edited by Sand Dancer; 22-08-09, 23:07. Reason: to ad a p.s.

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  • Mary from Italy
    replied
    I've found the newspaper report now - the case relates to a John Humble, aged 20, labourer, so I shouldn't think it's your man.

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