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    Your expert help, please.

    1881...did people who had been declared bankrupt go to prison or get transported to Australia?
    I have a problem ref: my bankrupt chap in 1881 and wondering if I should be searching a totally alien area to the one where he was born, grew up, lived with his family until he went bankrupt.

    Ready??...
    He was a farmer b.1832 and I have found him in the 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871 census, always in the same village.
    He does not appear in the 1881 census.
    I've found a death which fits (right name/age/town) in March 1881, which would explain his absence from the 1881 census.....BUT....the County Court newspaper notice of liquidation is dated 1 July 1881, and states "...late of Hartburn Farm, but now of 3 Oxbridge Lane, Hartburn".
    Coincidentally, or not, Oxbridge Lane is where the local cemetery is.

    I understand that the bankruptcy business is likely to have happened well before July, as it would take time to sort his affairs, but if that death in March was my chap, the Notice would surely say he is deceased.

    Any ideas please??


    P.S. My farmer's wife died Dec 1880, his eldest daughter in Feb 1881, and although my bankrupt farmer doesn't appear in the 1881 census the children do, with the eldest, age 23, listed as Head. So my chap is no longer living with them IF he is still alive.
    I have the death cert for the chap who 'fits' (unfortunately it leaves out his middle name) but the informant is the Coroner, not a member of the family as cause of death is suicide, 17 March 1881.

    It all fits, but that Liquidation notice has thrown me by giving that "now of..." address.
    Karen x

    #2
    Transportation stopped well before 1881, so you can rule that out.

    My next move would be to look for a newspaper report of the suicide, which may help you to determine whether it's the same man.

    OC

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks, OC.
      I'll google around for newspaper reports.
      Karen x

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
        Transportation stopped well before 1881, so you can rule that out.

        My next move would be to look for a newspaper report of the suicide, which may help you to determine whether it's the same man.

        OC
        I found that one of my niece's ancestors tried emigration as a way to move forward after mid-C19th bankruptcies. It didn't do much good - he had a very similar problem in Australia! On the other hand, his son ended up as a significant entrepreneur with a foot in both countries.

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


          #5
          OK, thanks Christine, another idea for me to look into.
          Karen x

          Comment


            #6
            I think there was an article the magazine in recent months on the topic of emigration. And there are likely to be links and info in the Wiki.

            Christine
            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

            Comment


              #7
              All the gory process of the insolvency would be reported in the London Gazette. Their website appears to be poorly at the moment but here is the link:

              London Gazette Home Page
              Uncle John

              Comment


                #8
                Have you tried searching for him with initials only in 1881 in case he's in prison?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks Christine.
                  Thanks Uncle John. The piece I found came from the London Gazette. I'll look for more.

                  P.S. Edited...No Mary I haven't, thanks for the suggestion. Did people go to prison for such things as bankruptcy?
                  Last edited by Sand Dancer; 22-08-09, 18:50.
                  Karen x

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Many years ago there was a debtors' prison - don't think it was still going by the 1880s, but I'm not sure. One relative of mine went bankrupt in 1879, and didn't go to prison as far as I know.
                    However, your man could have been in prison for a criminal offence, or in an asylum, in which case initials were often used in the census instead of names.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The Debtors Act 1869 abolished imprisonment for debt, although debtors who had the means to pay their debt, but did not do so, could still be incarcerated for up to six weeks.
                      Debtors' prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Sand Dancer View Post
                        The piece I found came from the London Gazette. I'll look for more.
                        There are usually 3 or 4 stages to a bankruptcy, each of which will be reported in the Gazette. The final stage (payment to creditors) could be several years later. Even today, with a much-streamlined process, the distribution of dividend can be 3 or 4 years later.
                        Uncle John

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks for that information Mary, very useful.

                          Uncle John, I didn't realise there were stages. In that case i've found only the last piece, stating the final dividend payment and when and where it will be paid out.
                          Thanks for that information.
                          Karen x

                          Comment


                            #14
                            This is it, roughly. I may have mis-remembered the tereminology - it's some while since I traced one.

                            If X is in partnership, there's a statement that the partnership is dissolved. Then there's a statement that X will be declared insolvent. Then X is called for examination. Then creditors are invited to put in claims. And finally the dividend is declared.

                            In my best-remembered case, OH's ancestor was in partnership with his b-i-l. Reading between the lines they managed to drink or gamble away the assets of the inherited business. Part way through the bankruptcy process the b-i-l disappears (as far as the Gazette is concerned). He had actually died of syphilis in the County Asylum, leaving ancestor to carry the can on his own.
                            Uncle John

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Aah, now I understand...I've now searched the London Gazette and seen several notices ref; the bankruptcy, starting with the first Notice of a general meeting for creditors, through notices asking for creditors debts and claims, winding up with the final payment notice 4 months later.

                              I still wonder where my man is during this time!!!!! He doesn't seem very dead to me, I've found no newpaper reports of a suicide. Thought it might have made a good story, the chap ending his life barely 2 weeks after his bankruptcy was declared publicly.

                              Ho hum, still looking.

                              Thanks all.
                              Karen x

                              Comment


                                #16
                                If you want to post his name, we can all have a look for him in 1881.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Thanks Mary.

                                  His name was John Wilkinson Humble, b.1832 Stockton, Co Durham.
                                  A farmer, he lived in East Hartburn, Stockton. He married Ann 1856, and they had 9 children, all born Hartburn, Stockton.
                                  I've got him/them on the 1841, 1851, 1861 & 1871 census'.
                                  It would appear his wife Ann died Dec 1880, and daughter Annie in Feb 1881.

                                  1881 Census...his children living at Hartburn Terrace, East Hartburn, Stockton.
                                  Arthur Humble. head. 23
                                  Mary E Humble. sister 22.
                                  John W Humble. brother 18.
                                  Thomas G Humble. brother 16.
                                  Fred Humble. brother 13.
                                  Ada Humble. sister 11.

                                  I've found some notifications ref. his Bankruptcy from the London Gazette, which appear between March 1881 and July 1881. They give his address as 3 Oxbridge Lane, Hartburn, Stockton.

                                  I've just had a look at prisons by putting in his initials, but no results there.
                                  Can't find anything else about him in newspapers, but admit I'm not very experienced at searching newspaper archives.
                                  Karen x

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Sand Dancer View Post
                                    Thanks Mary.

                                    His name was John Wilkinson Humble, b.1832 Stockton, Co Durham.
                                    ...
                                    Gosh! Are you related to Kate? (Of the recent WDYTYA?)

                                    Her HUMBLE ancestors came from the NE, tho' they were miners, not farmers. One was an overseer, and bravely shouldered responsibilities for searching and standing by when the beam of the engine broke and blocked the only access to the mineshaft, trapping about 200 men below. A very moving section of the episode. After that tragedy, all mines were required to have at least two access shafts - obvious... with hindsight.

                                    Christine
                                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Hi Christine,
                                      I did see that episode of WDYTYA and found it one of the best. Not because Humble's are mine, they are in fact my sister in law's, but i am doing her tree 'cos I'm totally up against a brickwall with my own.
                                      I promised I'd try and find her link to Kate, before I realised that looking at Humble's in the north east must be like looking for a Dai Jones in Wales!!!!!! LOL
                                      Karen x

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I take it this is John W Humble jr?

                                        Jack Humble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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