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    Gut instinct?

    Or merely wind, lol.

    I am stuck hard with this open ended family.

    My 3 x GGPs, William McKenzie and Agnes Garioch (pronounced Gerrie and spelled any way you like) allege that they were married "in 1846, Dundee". This is from the birth cert of their son in 1855.

    I cannot find any such marriage and suspect they were lying anyway, as in 1851, Agnes appears as William's housekeeper, not wife.

    But I keep going back to this marriage I found on the IGI - extracted.

    Agnes McKenzie to George Greig, 28 Nov 1845, Dundee.

    I am wondering if the surnames were transposed and HE was the McKenzie and she was the Greig (which comes up as an alternative for Gerrie on Ancestry). Don't know how to explain the George bit unless he was William's brother?

    I am hampered by the wildly mistranscribed ages of this couple. I have Agnes' death cert, which has given me her parents, but William is proving impossible to trace with such a common name, unless I can get a handle on his parents.

    I can't see which way to go next.

    OC

    #2
    There is a George Greig/Agnes combination in Dundee in 1851 and, looking at the 1861 and the IGI, Agnes seems to be Agnes McKenzie. So that may be your 1845 marriage couple.
    Gillian
    User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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      #3
      *passes the Enos*

      Comment


        #4
        Ah, thanks Gillian - so it was just wind after all, lol!

        I could scream really, because in 1851, and 61,this couple have a boarder, the orphan John Cattanach, born 1845.

        Cattanach is a name which crops up later, when William and Agnes' grandaughter marries a man whose grandmother is a Cattanach.

        There is no obvious connection between the two sets of grandparents, but this is such an unusual surname that I feel there must be!

        OC

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          #5
          It's swings and roundabouts with Scottish lines isn't it? The detailed certs, if and when you find them, are real goldmines, but the 1855 start date is frequently screamingly frustrating!

          Have you no siblings for William? Or is the naming pattern of his children not helpful? Mind, with a name like Mckenzie, there are probably not many forenames which would be helpful.

          Is there a Dundee FHS with marriage records?
          Gillian
          User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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            #6
            trust it to be flipping Dundee!!!! lolol I keep telling you's all that I dinny do Dundee!! pmsl
            Jilly "keeping the grin gear working" McMad



            http://JillysMcMadHouse.synthasite.com

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              #7
              OC..I've half arranged with my pal to take the kids after school one day next week to let me go back into Reg House again now that i'm on a roll with it lolol

              if you dont have any luck with them do you want me to have a wee looky see for you and see if I can find anything for them ?
              Jilly "keeping the grin gear working" McMad



              http://JillysMcMadHouse.synthasite.com

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                #8
                Jilly

                Thankyou for the very kind offer, but honestly, I wouldn't know where to tell you to look! They never, as far as I can tell, do anything in Dundee - all born Aberdeen. Except this mythical marriage. Naming patterns don't help as I have nothing to compare with.

                William's age is 28 in 1851, 55 in 1861(!) and 46 in in 1871! Agnes died in 1876 and I lose William after that - don't know if he died or remarried and far too many to guess at.

                The only reason I know it's the same family is because they are at the same address and William's occupation is the same throughout! The children's ages wobble about too. But ah! I have defined the birth of one of them!

                Off to download another cert, see what this says about a marriage.

                OC

                Comment


                  #9
                  OC!!! You broke it didn't you?

                  Just went to buy some credits and now the site is "unavailable".
                  Gillian
                  User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Sorry Gillian! It was an accident, honest!

                    No it wasn't, it was already broken when I got there.

                    OC

                    Comment


                      #11
                      lol well i dont mind looking for you if you change your mind....

                      thats not you messing up a perfectly good site there is it Jill??? lolol
                      Jilly "keeping the grin gear working" McMad



                      http://JillysMcMadHouse.synthasite.com

                      Comment


                        #12
                        It wisnae me Jilly!
                        *checks over shoulder to make sure she who shall be nameless isn't listening*
                        It's these beginners you know - pressing all the wrong buttons!

                        OC - re the naming pattern. If the second boy and first girl fit Agnes' parents, then the first boy should be William's father and I thought that might help to find William in 1841.
                        Gillian
                        User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

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                          #13
                          For one credit only, you might be able to "discount" Agnes McKenzie and George Grieg, or not, by using the (pre -1855 only) "siblings" search for their children, - see SP's FAQ section for a good explanation, if it ever recovers?

                          (Aberdeen information seems really fragmented - not just one map to buy on Alan Godfrey's site, but about four - which district to choose? Too many M.I. for parishes as well...bother).

                          Found my family's Shuttle Street, however, on an 1912 map of Aberdeen on the National Library of Scotland site - also saw that Albion Street and Wales Street were parallel and back to back - think those were streets in question in the McKenzie saga, earlier, needing to be close together?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            LOL, SP appears to have been down since September 2007, according to the message I keep getting!

                            Beth EDIT - duh! I mean Gillian!

                            The naming pattern isn't helping at all.

                            Alexanderina b 1846
                            Boy - deceased by 1855
                            Girl - deceased by 1855
                            William 1855
                            Betsy Dow born 1859 - never appears on a census
                            Robert born 1860.

                            Agnes' parents are John and Jean/Jane (nee Bruce)

                            No idea what William's parents were called and the only maybe baptism for him is to a Kenneth and Helen! (Which could of course, be the names of the deceased children)

                            Beth

                            I shall just sit tight till SP comes back and get Betsy Dow's birth cert. I have discounted the Agnes McKenzie/George Greig marriage as they are on the 1861.

                            OC

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Oh *excited screams*

                              Have now downloaded Betsy's birth cert.

                              Written across the bottom of column four, in big heavy ink, is "illegitimate"

                              Daft question - does this mean Betsy is illegitimate, or her father, lol?

                              (Column four is headed Name, Surname, Rank or Profession of father).

                              Both her parents were present at registration. Think I have answered my own question here.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Well, looks like a later marriage for William and Agnes is unlikely then, unless it wasn't in the Established Church.
                                I'm curious about both parents being present at registration. What qualification was given for William?

                                Is Betsy's "Dow" second name no clue at all?
                                Gillian
                                User page: http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/...ustGillian-117

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Gillian

                                  It says

                                  Agnes Garioch mother present
                                  and
                                  William McKenzie (his mark) father of 11 Albion St. witnessed by assistant registrar AND Registrar! (In that column)
                                  Also, Registrar's witness in final column.

                                  Looking at the other two unrelated births on the same page, only one person has registered a birth and the witness statement of the Registrar is in the final column.

                                  No, so far the Dow middle name isn't helping.

                                  OC

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    OC, have you tried Hugh Wallis(second names) There are a few Dows in Aberdeen, including your Betsy.

                                    Not sure if that's any help.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Have you seen Mary Ann Dow Greig 1865? Thought I'd muddy the waters for you.

                                      It's the only way to do Scotland. Put all the names in a hat and throw them in the air LOL.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Jilly McMad View Post
                                        trust it to be flipping Dundee!!!! lolol I keep telling you's all that I dinny do Dundee!! pmsl
                                        Oh yes you do ................ ;)



                                        The management does not accept responsibility for any sensible comments that may accidentally appear in this posting. Occurrences are incidental and not based upon actual intelligence .......

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