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Are these both the same person?

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  • Are these both the same person?

    I have a family group where I have a daughter called Eliza in the 1841 census and a daughter called Elizabeth in the 1851 census. I suspect that they are the same child but I can't find any proof for or against this theory. I haven't found any record with both on the same record and I haven't found a baptism for either of them although the older children in the family had births registered in Non conformist registers.

    If anyone with better skills than me would like to see if they can find them to prove or disprove whether they are the same, I would be very grateful.

    This is the family concerned..

    edward and caroline treelet.jpg

    I have not updated this Ancestry tree for a while but I know that the mother Caroline Southerden died in 1835

    This is the 1841 census on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...68?pId=3120729

    And this is the 1851 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...66?pId=3031638

    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

  • #2
    Just to let you know - 2 records of Edward and Carolines marriage in Woodnesborough ,Kent have Caroline Deborah Southerden and Caroline Deborah was born in High Halden ,Kent
    Caroline Deborah Southerden
    • Born March 30, 1788 - High Halden, Kent, England.
    • Deceased in 1851, aged 63 years old
    ParentsSiblings


    ​BUT - this tree says she died in 1851 - not 1835 - not all trees are correct - so I will let you decide if this is genuine
    Family Tree Preview

    Ancestry Chart Printable Family Tree
    Edward Barton 1713-1788 Mary Bolden 1715-1788
    | |



    |
    Stephen Southerden 1761-1803 Caroline Barton 1761-1858
    | |



    |
    Caroline Deborah Southerden 1788-1851
    ​ best of luck
    Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
    oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
    adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
    merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
    coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, Allan, but I don't think that can be right because Caroline is not present on either the 1841 or 1851 census that I have for the family and I have a burial record for her in Northgate, Canterbury where they lived.
      Last edited by Gardengirl; 28-12-23, 10:37.
      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

      Comment


      • #4
        I would say that Eliza and Elizabeth are the same. Unless you can find a death for Eliza before 1851. 1841 ages are a bit wonky at times so always best viewed with a pinch of salt.

        If the birth location for the children are the same and you've got their baptisms (not just single transcriptions) can you go back through the record to find Eliza/Elizabeth? I've found missing children this way.
        Queenbee

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by queenbee View Post

          If the birth location for the children are the same and you've got their baptisms (not just single transcriptions) can you go back through the record to find Eliza/Elizabeth? I've found missing children this way.
          That's a good idea. They are non conformist birth registrations at the Dr Williams Library and I haven't looked in depth at them.
          I also wondered if Caroline, the mother, was unwell after the birth in 1829, maybe she was too poorly and never really recovered so they didn't get around to registering the later birth(s)

          Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

          Comment


          • #6
            Eliza and Elizabeth can often occur in families as two separate children. In this case, because of the way the dates lie and their individual appearance on the 1841 and 1851 censuses, I think they are probably the same person.

            Anne

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks, Ann. I do think all the available evidence is pointing that way at the moment. I think I will merge them on my tree. I can always change it again later if any more evidence comes to light.
              Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

              Comment

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