Brameld Family - South Yorkshire

[Gmelliottuk]

Hi,

I'm trying to trace the birth record for Henry Brameld, born c1823 (spelling of Brameld has been variable throughout)

He married Jane Wilson in 1846 in Rawmarsh, South Yorkshire and lived there until his death in 1897. His father was stated as Thomas Brameld on his marriage certificate.

All the census records from 1851 onwards, consistenly show his birthplace as Staffordshire, with some showing Penkhull as well. He is also shown as a cordwainer/shoemaker throughout each census. I cannot however, find any record relating to his birth.

I've tried looking for him in 1841 and I believe he is in Rotherham. I have found a household on the same street as he lived on another census, with a Henry Brameld b.1826 (presumably rounded with the 1841 census) living with Abraham and Mary Brameld. Abraham shows as a shoemaker and Henry as apprentice. Possibly a coincidence, as his father is stated as Thomas on other records. It doesn't give their relationship though and Abraham is much older.

There are also records from the same village for children born to John Brameld, Shoemaker, in the 1760's. It feels like the same family, but I just cant tie it together with a birth in Staffordshire in 1823?

I'm hoping I can use any information, to link Henry to other Bramelds living close by, who owned the world famous Rockingham Pottery around the same time and supplied the royal family.

Fingers crossed I have something interesting, rather than farmers and agricultural labourers.

Thanks

[Katarzyna]

Could this be him?
on FMP
Henry James Marmion Bramall
Archive reference D3773/1/8
Baptism date 16 Jul 1823
Register type Baptism
Father. Thomas - gentleman
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth Maria
Tamworth, St Editha, Staffordshire

[Katarzyna]

What was Henry's father's occupation on the marriage cert.
Thomas and Elizabeth Maria are on the 1851 and 61 censuses but he is a magistrate so not sure his son would be a shoemaker??
Edit: They are as Bramall not Brameld so probably not them.

[Gmelliottuk]

His father was also a cordwainer. I had seen the one with Marmion in his name, but also dismissed it.

On another message board, somebody highlighted that in 1851, he has Mary, his aunt, living with him. That would make Abraham and Mary in 1841 his Uncle & Aunt, so we're looking for a Thomas and Abraham born to the same father.

My gut feel is that John (shoemaker), who was having children in the 1760s in Rawmarsh, is linked to them, but can't see that he had an Abraham in the records.

I've seen Brameld also written as Bramald, Bramal, Brammeld, Bramall, all within one family, so it doesn't make it easy

[Katarzyna]

Abraham Brammald bap 16 Aug 1801 Rawmarsh Parents |George (a potter) and Mary dau of Wm Crooks (FMP)

[Lin Fisher]

I think Abraham Brammald was buried 1802 in Rawmarsh son of George.

I did have a quick look last night and think that the Abraham on the 1841 was 60 so born around 1781. Didn't look in Rawmarsh as it was thought that Henry was born in Staffs.

[Lin Fisher]

There is a Henry Edward Brammeld bap 28 Jul 1819 Swinton to Thomas and Jane. Swinton is really close to Rawmarsh. Thomas is a manufacturer of earthenware. He could be from Staffordshire.

Not much help but I have family moving from Staffordshire to Rotherham then further north about the same time as this. Certainly more industry up in the North then.

[Katarzyna]

Name Mary Crooks
Gender Female
Marriage Date 20 Feb 1786
Marriage Place Rawmarsh, York,England
Spouse
George Brammall
FHL Film Number 919313

[Gmelliottuk]

I've built up a bit of a spreadsheet now with all the Bramelds in Rawmarsh, Wath and Swinton. I'm pretty sure they are all linked somehow. What puzzles me is that there were Bramelds in Rawmarsh much before Henry came along in 1823 and was living in Rawmarsh in 1841.

I can only assume one of them went to Staffordshire for a short period when Henry was born. It would make sense, as Stoke is famous for potteries and I'm trying to link Henry to the famous Rockingham pottery in Swinton.

My feeling is that there are non-conformist records somewhere that detail the missing links. The John Brameld who was a shoemaker in the 1760's had several wives and there are 3 child deaths associated with him, none of which I can find birth records for in the detailed parish records.

Abraham and Mary, who Henry was living with in 1841 (they're his aunt and uncle), had a birth of a child in the non-conformist registers at Masbrough, Rotherham

[Katarzyna]

Name Thomas Brameld - of Wath upon Dearne in the West Riding County of York.
Gender Male
Record Type Marriage
Marriage Date 24 Nov 1815
Marriage Place Christ Church, Southwark: Blackfriars Road, Southwark, England
Spouse Jane Sherwood
Register Type Parish Register
By Licence
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938

[Lin Fisher]

That marriage looks good. Also Thomas on the baptism I found was a manufacturer of eartherware.

Non conformist records are often very good if you can find them

[Gmelliottuk]

The Wath Upon Dearne Bramelds are definitely linked to Rockingham Pottery.
Later John Wager Brameld was having children in Chelsea on a non-conformist register. Thomas is his older brother I think.
The brothers owned the pottery at the height of it's prestige and John Wager designed the dinner set that was used at Queen Victoria's coronation banquet.

I just can't find that definitive proof that they are linked by bloodline to the Rawmarsh Bramelds and hence, my relatives.

The closest I have is that John (shoemaker) had a son called George in the 1760's. I believe that may be the same George that married Mary Crooks and was a 'potter' by trade. George also had a son called Abraham who died, and a daughter called Rebecca.
John's first wife was Rebecca and the name Abraham is linked through shoemaking / Henry.

Thomas who married Jane in Southwark a few posts up had a son called Henry Edward Brameld in 1819 in Swinton, so it's not the correct Thomas or Henry unfortunately.

They have to be linked, I just don't know the common ancestor

[Katarzyna]

Name Jane Brameld Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar Death Registration Place Rotherham, Yorkshire West Riding, United Kingdom Death Date Mar 1856 Inferred Death Place Yorkshire West Riding, United Kingdom Volume 9c Page 241

[Gmelliottuk]

That would be Henry's wife, Jane Wilson. She disappears from the census after 1851.

[annette.humphreys]

What about this one (you mention he was living in Rotherham in 1841): Henry Bramah b.9/10/1823, bp.28/12/1823 Rotherham Minster, son of Thomas, cordwainer, and Hannah. Siblings Catherine in 1825, Thomas 1828, Charles James 1830 - surname on all 4 is Bramah. Found on findmypast.

[Gmelliottuk]

Other than the census records saying staffordshire, that looks a very interesting find.

I've seen the surname spelt as all sorts.

the test will be whether I can find the family you detail on the census records

[Katarzyna]

There is a Thomas Bramah who married Hannah Taylor 14 July 1822 at Sheffield, Cathedral Church of St Peter & St Paul.
Also Thomas Bramah who married Hannah Loxley 04 Jul 1822 at Ecclesfield, Yorkshire, (North of Sheffield)

Thomas Bramah bap Rotherham 01 Aug 1766 father William
Thomas Bramah bap Rotherham 29 Jan 1770 No parents named
Thomas Bramah bap 1785 Sheffield parents George and Eliz.

Looks like all Bramah in this family. all FMP

[Katarzyna]

There is an ad in the Sheffield Daily Telegraph dated Mar 9 1867 for Henry Bramah - "keeps the best selection of lamps in Sheffield " etc etc
So not your Henry.

[Katarzyna]

1851 census
Keelings Lane, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England

Sarah Bramald Head Widow Female 66 1785 - Newhill, Yorkshire, England
William Bramald Son Unmarried Male 33 1818 Potter Hanley, Staffordshire, England
William H Bramald Grand son Orphan Male 12 1839 Potter Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Ann Taylor Grand daughter - Female 7 1844 - Hanley, Staffordshire, England

Newhill is between Wath upon Dearne and Swinton

[Katarzyna]

I can't find Sarah on the 1841 but

BRAMALD, WILLIAM HENRY mmn MOUNTFORD
GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 17 Page 166

TAYLOR, ANN mmn BRAMALD
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 17 Page 152

This is William Henry on 1841 with father John Bramald

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/15655241:8978?tid=&pid=&queryId=1a7753b3cb49c5af1f dc494b552c5fc0&_phsrc=jpu2172&_phstart=successSour ce

John Bramald 25
Elizabeth Bramald 25
William Bramald 2
Ann Bramald 3 Mo