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  • Reg district help?

    Good evening,

    Please can someone help me work out Ellen F R Hewer's birth / correct parents?

    I think finding out the correct reg district for Clanfield, Berkshire (now Oxfordshire) in the 1870's might help me? I can't work it out - was it Witney (didn't think was ever in Berkshire though)?

    On the 1881 census it says she was born in 1872 Clanfield, parents are Thomas Hewer and Mary Ann Moss Keen. The marriage for them is 1874 though.

    I can't find a birth record for Ellen (middle names are Florence Radburn / Bradburn) so wondering if she was registered in Mother's name and Thomas isn't her biological father?

    Or Mary Ann isn't her mother and her father married before but haven't found anything to support this yet.

    Thanks
    Last edited by tessie31082; 14-03-23, 21:29.

  • #2
    Found Thomas and Mary lodging with family on the 1891 and it looks like they have another daughter (19) called Mary A Moss - off to search for Ellen Moss!

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    • #3
      i always use this website, always seems to give me the right answer

      Carolyn
      Family Tree site

      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

      Comment


      • #4
        If you use FreeBMD then, when you get the search results click on the name of the registration district. It takes you to a new page which lists all the places in that district at various dates. That's what I use!
        Anne

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        • #5

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          • #6
            The best I can come up with is this birth, which semi-matches with her second middle-name: RADBONE, ELLEN mmn HICKS GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in WITNEY Volume 03A Page 651

            Charles Radbourne married Charlotte Hicks in 1858, Witney RD, and in 1871 they are at Clanfield Street, Clanfield with a bunch of children. RG10/1451/123/7

            Charlotte died in 1877, a year after giving birth to a son, Ernest Radbone, and then in 1878 Charles marries Elizabeth Kilbey nee Griffin.

            In 1881 the family is in Northleach, Gloucester (as Radburn), but there is no Ellen with them and I can't see a death for her either - RG11/2560/25/21

            I can't think why Thomas & Mary Ann would take her in and claim her as their own, but the name, age & location fits and I can't find anything to rule it out.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by teasie View Post
              The best I can come up with is this birth, which semi-matches with her second middle-name: RADBONE, ELLEN mmn HICKS GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in WITNEY Volume 03A Page 651

              Charles Radbourne married Charlotte Hicks in 1858, Witney RD, and in 1871 they are at Clanfield Street, Clanfield with a bunch of children. RG10/1451/123/7

              Charlotte died in 1877, a year after giving birth to a son, Ernest Radbone, and then in 1878 Charles marries Elizabeth Kilbey nee Griffin.

              In 1881 the family is in Northleach, Gloucester (as Radburn), but there is no Ellen with them and I can't see a death for her either - RG11/2560/25/21

              I can't think why Thomas & Mary Ann would take her in and claim her as their own, but the name, age & location fits and I can't find anything to rule it out.

              Thanks Teasie - I'll look to see if Clanfield was a part of Witney reg in 1871 and then take a look at what you've posted! Bit of a tangle with this one!

              Neither Mary Ann or Thomas were married before and I think finding Mary Ann's birth is needed too (her father's details are not on the marriage record)!
              Last edited by tessie31082; 15-03-23, 16:31.

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              • #8
                Really not sure where the Radburn/Radbourne is coming from for Ellen. It is in neither of her 'parents' names in any records.

                Also, her mother Mary Ann Moss Keen - not sure it is Moss (that's how it's transcribed) but looking at the marriage not sure it is (attached) - can anyone give an opinion if it is Moss?

                Both 'parents' say they haven't married before - unless Radbourne is Ellen's biological Father's name and Thomas took her on when they married?

                Attached Files

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                • #9
                  It's definitely "moss". In the signature as well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Blimey, they certainly seem a complicated bunch!

                    I agree that the marriage says Mary Ann Moss Keen.

                    Going back to the 1891 census Thomas HEWER and Mary Ann Moss KEEN (now Hewer) have a 'MOSS' niece with them:
                    Mary A Moss 19 niece born Tetbury, Wilts

                    In 1881 I think this niece and several siblings are in the Highworth & Swindon Workhouse at Stratton St Margaret, Highworth, Wiltshire:
                    Mary Ann Moss 9 born Kempsford
                    Sarah Ellen Moss 7 born Kempsford
                    John Moss 5 born Kempsford
                    Janie Maria Moss 3 born Kempsford
                    Bessie Sophia Moss 1 born Woodstock

                    At the moment I can’t get any further as I can't find any of their births, but tantalisingly there are these ones that all match up but with the Keen surname instead of Moss:

                    KEENE, ELLEN MARYANN mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1871 S Quarter in TETBURY Volume 06A Page 335​
                    KEEN, SARAH ELLEN mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1874 M Quarter in OF WESTBURY ON SEVERN Volume 06A Page 249​
                    KEEN, ALFRED JOHN mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in CLIFTON Volume 06A Page 191​
                    KEEN, MARIA JANE mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 649​
                    KEEN, BESSIE SOPHIA mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in WHEATENHURST Volume 06A Page 332​

                    An Elizabeth DRAISEY married John KEEN in Tetbury RD in 1871.

                    I'm too tired to look any further, but its interesting that the family appear to use both MOSS and KEEN as surnames.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oops forgot to add that I think this is Mary Ann Moss Keen in 1861, along with her brother John Keen (who married Elizabeth Draisey per post #10 above).

                      1861 at Buckland, Gloucestershire - RG9, Piece 1793, Folio 100, Page 4

                      Elizabeth Keen 32 wife born Brinkworth, Wilts
                      John Keen 10 son b Highworth, Wilts
                      Mary Ann Keen 6 daur b [?] Gloucs
                      George Keen 2 son b Blockley, Gloucs
                      William Keen 5m b Buckland, Gloucs

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by teasie View Post
                        Blimey, they certainly seem a complicated bunch!

                        I agree that the marriage says Mary Ann Moss Keen.

                        Going back to the 1891 census Thomas HEWER and Mary Ann Moss KEEN (now Hewer) have a 'MOSS' niece with them:
                        Mary A Moss 19 niece born Tetbury, Wilts

                        In 1881 I think this niece and several siblings are in the Highworth & Swindon Workhouse at Stratton St Margaret, Highworth, Wiltshire:
                        Mary Ann Moss 9 born Kempsford
                        Sarah Ellen Moss 7 born Kempsford
                        John Moss 5 born Kempsford
                        Janie Maria Moss 3 born Kempsford
                        Bessie Sophia Moss 1 born Woodstock

                        At the moment I can’t get any further as I can't find any of their births, but tantalisingly there are these ones that all match up but with the Keen surname instead of Moss:

                        KEENE, ELLEN MARYANN mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1871 S Quarter in TETBURY Volume 06A Page 335​
                        KEEN, SARAH ELLEN mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1874 M Quarter in OF WESTBURY ON SEVERN Volume 06A Page 249​
                        KEEN, ALFRED JOHN mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in CLIFTON Volume 06A Page 191​
                        KEEN, MARIA JANE mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 649​
                        KEEN, BESSIE SOPHIA mmn DRAISEY GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in WHEATENHURST Volume 06A Page 332​

                        An Elizabeth DRAISEY married John KEEN in Tetbury RD in 1871.

                        I'm too tired to look any further, but its interesting that the family appear to use both MOSS and KEEN as surnames.
                        good find, why do families do this! they certainly got around too

                        Bessie baptism on Ancestry in Frocaster. John Keen occupation Carter
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          late to party, but don't think the 1911 census has been mentioned where they have added Mary Ann as daughter age 36 and crossed her out
                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...11826_0031_03?

                          William Keen as mentioned post 11 marries Fanny Cook and Mary Ann and Thomas Hewer are witnesses

                          Off out now, but can see this ancestry tree that has 2 children with James Moss and 3 with John Keen

                          Last edited by cbcarolyn; 16-03-23, 09:54.
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you so much Teasie and Carolyn!! So just Ellen (original post at top) - my original query to work out haha! I will get to the bottom of it - I think just got to work out the combination of names until I find a birth. I don't think the one you found Teasie can be correct but not much else to go on yet!

                            Tessie

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