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The Savages of Wootten Rivers.

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  • The Savages of Wootten Rivers.

    This is another rabbit hole side branch of my tree that I went down earlier this week. I know some of you are great at researching so any help you can offer would be much appreciated.

    Thomas and Ann Savage.jpg

    I originally found the children in the 1841 census https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcr...841/0005516119 They are without their parents and the oldest child, Mary, was listed as a pauper .

    1841 census.jpg

    Mary |Savage |Female |18 |1823 |Wiltshire, England

    Elizabeth |Savage |Female |10 |1831 |Wiltshire, England

    Eliza |Savage |Female |15 |1826 |Wiltshire, England

    Morris |Savage |Male |10 |1831 |Wiltshire, England

    Jane |Savage |Female |5 |1836 |Wiltshire, England

    Ann |Savage |Female |8 |1833 |Wiltshire, England

    Thomas |Savage |Male |4 |1837 |Wiltshire, England

    From here I found a string of baptisms in the Parish Registers for Wootten Rivers in Wiltshire which gave me some conflicting dates. I had Thomas baptised 1827 and for Elizabeth I had 1829. After a bit more digging I found that there was a Thomas born in 1827 who subsequently died and a later child was also called Thomas. Now known as Thomas 1 and Thomas 2 in my tree.

    But I haven't found an explanation for Elizabeth b 1831 but baptised 1829. Do you think this could just be a mistake made by her older sister, Mary, when filling in the census? I guess it was a huge responsibility for a young girl, possibly not well educated, to give all those names and dates to the enumerator. Or does the census say Elizabeth was 16? I'm also curious that she was given her mother's maiden name as a second name - I wonder why the first child wasn't given that name.

    I also have a Hannah from the baptisms (baptised the same day as Mary) but she isn't on the 1841 census and I haven't found her anywhere else either.

    Thomas and Ann Savage family.jpg

    So any thoughts about Elizabeth? or Hannah? or anything else?
    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

  • #2
    the 1841 census had rounded ages. you can see at the bottom of the search pages on FMP

    "Discover more about the 1841 census


    The 1841 census was the first modern census, when the first Registrar General of England and Wales was made responsible for organising the count.

    The 1841 census was taken on the night of 6 June 1841 and gave the total population as 18,553,124.

    The task of counting was passed to local officers of the newly created registration service. This is the earliest census that has survived in its entirety: few of the 1801, 1811, 1821 and 1831 censuses have survived the ravages of time.

    1841 was the first time that the head of each household was given a form to fill in on behalf of everyone in the dwelling on a set day. This system still forms the basis of the method used today.

    Note: In the 1841 Census a policy of rounding down ages was in place. As such, people aged:
    • 15-19 were recorded as 15
    • 20-24 were recorded as 20
    • 25-29 were recorded as 25
    • 30-34 were recorded as 30
    • 35-39 were recorded as 35...and so on"
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


    • #3
      Does that just apply for adults though?
      Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

      Comment


      • #4
        there are a number of trees for the family on Ancestry, if you get stuck. Looks like Elizabeth went off to Scotland
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
          Does that just apply for adults though?
          I did wonder if it was all a bit confusing and she was rounded! I can't see any records on Ancestry to say exactly when she was born just the baptism. There only seems to be 1 Elizabeth baptism on Ancestry. could be first one died and this was Elizabeth 2
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


          • #6
            Just checked all the other census on the tree that is on ancestry and always says birth 1830 or 1831.

            Been through the burials and there doesn't seem to be an Elizabeth. Wonder if she was given that age and having no parents to fix it, she stuck with it, not knowing any different
            Last edited by cbcarolyn; 10-03-23, 23:27.
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
              Does that just apply for adults though?
              anyone over the age of 15 should have been enumerated according to the 1841 census. BUT I have lots of 1841 entries where the enumerator just put their actual ages.
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


              • #8
                But I haven't found an explanation for Elizabeth b 1831 but baptised 1829.
                I'd say that she got the dates the wrong way around, she was born in 1829 and bapt in 1831.

                It's not uncommon for a person to be born and then baptised much later on, say at age 8 or 12 or even an adult.
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post

                  I'd say that she got the dates the wrong way around, she was born in 1829 and bapt in 1831.
                  But the baptism date came from a baptism register so it's the birth date that is odd.

                  Assuming that she (Elizabeth) was baptised as a baby in 1829 that would have made her 12 in 1841 so maybe that number on the census was written as 12 then the enumerator rounded it down to 10. Or maybe it's just a mistake in the transcription. Am I right that when the enumerator went to the house he would have written the information down somewhere else then transcribed it into the official book later?

                  I think for now I will enter her birth year as abt 1829 until any further evidence emerges.
                  Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Did anyone find anything about Hannah who was baptised on the same day as Mary?
                    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                      Assuming that she (Elizabeth) was baptised as a baby in 1829 that would have made her 12 in 1841 so maybe that number on the census was written as 12 then the enumerator rounded it down to 10.
                      The 1841 for Elizabeth she is listed as being 10 yrs old, it looks like the enumerator made an error and then overwrote the age.

                      Julie
                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                      .......I find dead people

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Gardengirl do you have the image for the baptisms please? I don't have any current subscriptions so can't see a link when posted.
                        Last edited by Darksecretz; 11-03-23, 11:41.
                        Julie
                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                        .......I find dead people

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have screen clips of all the ones that I found. Were there any in particular that you would like to see?
                          Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mary and Hannah joint baptism
                            ​​​​​​​1824 06 13 Mary and Hannah Savage.jpg

                            Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                              I have screen clips of all the ones that I found. Were there any in particular that you would like to see?
                              Elizabeths if poss, thx
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                                Mary and Hannah joint baptism
                                1824 06 13 Mary and Hannah Savage.jpg
                                I'd say they were just baptised on that day, nothing to indicate that they were twins or anything [if they were then i'd expect to see that written somewhere in the margins]
                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I just think she must have been 2 years younger than she thought she was can't see any other explanation. the registers are all there and you can scroll through them, if she was second born elizabeth she would have had a burial and another baptism?
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Elizabeth - she seems to be the only one given a second name too.

                                    1829 07 05 Elizabeth Gale Savage.jpg
                                    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Gardengirl was she born before her parents married? [Elizabeth I mean]
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        No, they were married in 1823
                                        Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                        Comment

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