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Has anyone tried WATO DNA painter and if so...........

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  • Has anyone tried WATO DNA painter and if so...........

    How many possible options did the results give?

    I tried it yesterday to establish where I might fit in relation to my closest unknown DNA match, there are also several shared matches in her family I can add to the WATO tree and include cM values for. Initially I started with two individuals with cM values and let the programme to get the results. I added another individual with a cM value and tried again. I repeated the process several times adding another individual with a cM value from our shared matches. I ended up with between 45 and 70 potential spots I could fit in the tree, the last test was the 70 options but put me two generations away from the most likely relationship calculations Ancestry suggest as viable.

    On paper I have no link whatsoever to these people and even more confused than ever beyond they are a maternal link and seem to be through my grandfather.
    Last edited by Glen in Tinsel Knickers; 20-02-23, 17:16. Reason: Grammar Police intervened
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

  • #2
    Short answer NOPE!.. not got a scooby doo! never heard of it tbh. I'm just as confused as ever with my DNA research so much so that I have just stalled with it.. [well, all of my research tbf]
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


    • #3
      It just struck me 9long after posting the initial comment), that my closest match could be either a maternal first cousin or a first cousin once removed. He should in theory match anyone through my maternal grandparents, the Hay and Chambers but only matches with the Chambers side. Based on our shared cM there are several spots he could be in my tree but the most likely are child or grandchild of my aunt unless my aunt and my mother are really half siblings instead of full sibs. Of course he's Canadian, hasn't logged into Ancestry for over a year and has at least three messages from people I know of that haven't been read.

      I have half a dozen maternal shared matches that all go back to a family I've never heard of, they don't match my Chambers, none of them have the Hay name in their trees, they just match each other and seem to have no link at all to any of my maternal matches on the Chambers side. I wish a couple of other cousins would spit in a tube.
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

      Comment


      • #4
        I have tried it out on an unknown 1C2R/2C2R who popped up on my matches. (I had messaged, but did not get an answer). I worked out this persons year of birth. which helped as it meant I knew which way the "removed" bit went. WATO just confirmed the possibilities I had thought, but did not help narrow it down to a specific person, just a range of people (none of which made any sense to me). If you have a lot of relations in common it might help a bit more, but I had very few with this match, so it possibly was not the best outcome.
        Linda


        My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

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        • #5
          Yesterday I splashed out for the dna tools on myheritage so I could cluster them (I find MH really restricted in terms of what I can see with the free membership). I knew one match tied in with the group of maternal Ancestry matches I can't place but wasn't sure if there were others on MH I couldn't spot. It works out there are 4 in total but I can only build a tree for 3 of them.

          My biggest problem is the big Ancestry match has a private tree and although she replies to messages she is really bad at answering simple questions. All the matches go back to a certain couple but not many have trees or the link is too far back for me to see useful names without a sub, if I ask how many generations from shared match x to the couple she answers differently everytime. She can say match x is 3xgrt grandchild and two comments later they are a grt grandchild. If I could fix the matches in the right spot oce and for all I might have something to point me in the right direction.

          What I have noticed though is that all my maternal matches are split into two groups and there's no overlap. I would have thought the 1C/1C1R should match both as he should link through my grandparents, in essence both he and I are in the same position when it comes to dna filtering down, some matches might miss here and there but I can't see how they all do unless there's something odd going on with my grandparents and their 9 kids.
          Last edited by Glen in Tinsel Knickers; 20-02-23, 23:16.
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

          Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
          My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
          My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

          Comment


          • #6
            I've been playing around with WATO recently to see if I can work out how a 330cM Ancestry match fits in. She's uncommunicative but did tell me one set of grandparents names (When I first contacted her I thought she was a third cousin but couldn't trace her birth: the line I was following was in the army & I thought she might have been born abroad). I've done her tree back 3 generations and not found anything in common, not even likely locations.
            It doesn't seem to have occurred to her there is something amiss with the paper trail she has, nor does she seem particularly interested in trying to sort it out. I have the advantage that I have researched our shared lines fairly rigorously. I also know from the shared matches I can see that she is related to BOTH of my gt grandparents. Unless this is a rare fluke, and there are distant connections to both gt grandparents independently, there is an obvious conclusion - I have 7 sibs to chose from. However I only have DNA from 3 of their descendants lines.

            As I saw it, there were 2 possibilities for her to be connected at that level - my grandfather or one of his sibs had an illegitimate child; or else one of my grandfather's nephews (my first cousins) is actually this person's father, having fathered a child during the war (and which would have been conceived within a very narrow window around the time of her parents marriage). I know which I think is most likely.

            When I ran WATO, it gave me several dozen hypotheses. I eliminated those that didn't involve both of my gt grandparents. I also eliminated those where the dates didn't fit the generations. I know three of the sibs would have been too young to have had illegitimate children around the time this person's grandparents were born. (Even when you put dates in WATO it doesn't seem to take much notice) One of the girls was already married, though her sons would have been old enough to father a child in the 1940s. I'm left with the same precise scenarios I'd originally thought of - a total of 5. So unless I can get DNA from one or more of the untested sibs descendants this one will remain a mystery. It doesn't help that I can't see her other DNA matches so don't know which of her grandparents isn't who she thinks. But I do know my grandfather was living just round the corner from where her mother was born, and my grandfather and this woman's husband were both in the army (different regiments though). My grandfather married about 9 months after this woman's mother was born. However, I'm not ruling out one of his sisters having an illegitimate child and having it adopted out (and the birth subsequently registered with the wrong parents)

            WATO doesn't work well with DNA amounts under 40cM, so I excluded a couple of more distant cousins when I set up the tree.

            You also have to be very careful when you set up the tree. The mistake I made when I first started was trying to be too clever with the tree, and putting in too many branches.

            Last edited by Vicky the Viking; 21-02-23, 20:11.
            Vicky

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            • #7
              My maternal dna matches either tally with my grandmother or fall into a 'mystery' group that doesn't match anything in my papertrail. The two groups do not have any shared matches/crossovers so they are two distinctly separate groups. I have a 1c or 1c2r, he only matches with those in my maternal grandmother group. I can't be 100% sure where he fits my tree as he was born in Canada sometime from 1945 onwards, has no tree and hasn't been on Ancestry for at least a year and possibly much longer.

              Scenario 1 is 1c2r where he is a great grandson and I'm a grandson of LC
              Scenario 2 is where both he and I are grandsons of LC
              There are other scenarios but far less likely than the two above.

              For scenario 1 my mother and his grandmother would be full sibs, that is supported by the papertrail of UK birth certs
              Scenario 2 would put my mother and his mother as half sibs,


              If scenario 1 is correct and the two females were full sibs then surely the dna from the mystery group and the proven maternal grandmother group would filter down to both of us? The mystery group has as many as 10 people I can enter into WATO with cM shares to me from 199cM down to around 35, the 1c/1c2r is 395cM. I'm certainly not an expert with DNA but given two results at 199 and 395 relative to me, I believe if there was any link between them there is enough shared DNA for it to show up. As there is no crossover between them I'm starting to think scenario 2 is more likely, the sibs/half sib individuals are two females born 12 years apart either side of WWI.
              Last edited by Glen in Tinsel Knickers; 21-02-23, 17:26.
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

              Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
              My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
              My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

              Comment


              • #8
                Glen, do you know how much DNA your mystery match shares with your other shared matches? (Not the amounts they share with you)

                If you can get those figures and put them into the wato tree the hypotheses might make more sense.
                Vicky

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                • #9
                  There is her test, her sibling, her daughter plus first, second and third cousins, some might be once removed but she won't open her tree and I get lost when she starts listing family in messages. None of them share dna with my maternal grandmother.

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                  Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                  My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                  My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                  Comment

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