Looking for Violet

[ozgirl]

I found her as she married the witness to her brother's marriage! The only one of her siblings I haven't found after 1891 is Lilian Beatrice Caroline Lott, born 29 Dec 1876

[Gardengirl]

FMP have helpfully added the mother's maiden names from the GRO index to many (but not all) of the birth records, so I just looked for any births in Wandsworth RD 1885 +/- 2 years with the mmn Mercer, and the only one that came up with Violet in the name was Emily Violet Lott.
.

That’s great, I don’t think I knew that you could search that way. I must try and remember that. Thank you for the explanation.

[Gardengirl]

Thanks to Teasie and Ozgirl for finding all that out for me. Very much appreciated.

I’ll sit down this morning and go through it all and add it to my fH tree and Ancestry.

[Darksecretz]

Thanks OzGirl. I have ordered the certificate now and I don’t think you can cancel them. And now that you have posted that I think I did see it earlier in my searches but forgot about it. I do get cross with myself when I make mistakes like that Stupid woman!

I'm pretty sure that you can cancel the cert.. try ringing GRO?

[Gardengirl]

Good idea. I'll try that in the morning. Don't suppose there will be anyone there on a Sunday.


Edit - I found an online form which seemed quite straightforward so hopefully it won't be too late.

[Gardengirl]

I have been searching for Dorothy now, no sign of her birth registration so I used Teasie's technique (post #20) and found this which nearly matches the DOB from the 1939 register 30 Dec 1906. Does the birth quarter mean when it was registered rather than the actual birth date?

First name(s)	Dorothy Edith
Country	England
Last name	Jones
Volume	1D
Birth quarter	2
Page	442
Birth year	1907
Record set	England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Mother's maiden name	Mercer
Category	Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
District	Lambeth
Subcategory	Civil Births
County	London
Collections from	Great Britain, England

JONES? Who's he? Did Emily marry again?

I found this one on FreeBMD

Marriage	Jun 1907	JONES	Edward		Macclesfield	8a	224
Marriage	Jun 1907	MERCER	Emily Frances		Macclesfield	8a	224

What will I find next? I wonder if there is a parish marriage registration online.

[Gardengirl]

I'm beginning to wonder if something is wrong here. Could Emily nee MERCER really have had her first child in 1874 when she was about 17 and her last of 8 children in 1906 when she was 49? By three different fathers? I know it's not impossible but I feel I need to back track and check everything.

[teasie]

There is no Dorothy with Emily & Walter John in either 1911 or 1921.

As your only 'evidence' that she was Ethel Sophia's sister is from the photograph, I think the marriage certificate will be needed to move this one forward.

[Darksecretz]

I have been searching for Dorothy now, no sign of her birth registration so I used Teasie's technique (post #20) and found this which nearly matches the DOB from the 1939 register 30 Dec 1906. Does the birth quarter mean when it was registered rather than the actual birth date?
.

yes, it means that she was born in Quarter 2, which is April/May/June.

[Katarzyna]

Don't forget, a child's birth must be registered within 42 days of his or her date of birth therefore the baby could have been born in March.

[Anne in Carlisle]

The Quarter of registration can only be taken as a guide. I have many, many examples of births registered in the quarter after the actual birth. Sometimes it is because the birth was close to the end of the quarter and sometimes it is just because, as Kat says, they had 42 days to register the birth. However, while it would be normal for a 30th December birth to be registered in Q1 of the next year, it would not have been possible to register that birth date in Q2 (unless they paid a fine or chose a later birth date!).

As an aside to this I have come across at least three examples of infant deaths being registered in the quarter before the birth was registered. How distressing for the parents to have a death close to birth and then later be reminded that the birth had to be registered as well

Anne

[Katarzyna]

[QUOTE
I found this one on FreeBMD

Marriage	Jun 1907	JONES	Edward		Macclesfield	8a	224
Marriage	Jun 1907	MERCER	Emily Frances		Macclesfield	8a	224

[/QUOTE]

JONES, ADA FRANCES MERCER
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in MACCLESFIELD Volume 08A Page 154
JONES, CATHERINE MARY MERCER
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in MACCLESFIELD Volume 08A Page 141

This family is on 1911 census:

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F21504%2F0109%2F2

[Gardengirl]

There is no Dorothy with Emily & Walter John in either 1911 or 1921.

As your only 'evidence' that she was Ethel Sophia's sister is from the photograph, I think the marriage certificate will be needed to move this one forward.

Which certificate do you think would be the most revealing? There seem to be quite a lot of marriages going on!

[Gardengirl]

JONES, ADA FRANCES MERCER
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in MACCLESFIELD Volume 08A Page 154
JONES, CATHERINE MARY MERCER
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in MACCLESFIELD Volume 08A Page 141

This family is on 1911 census:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcr...%2F0109%2F2

This link doesn't seem to work for me.

[Gardengirl]

I think it might be worth getting the birth certificate for Dorothy. It is still possible that she could be the child of Emily Violet nee LOTT?

[Katarzyna]

This link doesn't seem to work for me.

Try this one:
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...DM5Ny41OC4wLjA.

[Gardengirl]

Thanks, I think we can discount that one then. It doesn't match up with Dorothy. Back to the drawing board!

[teasie]

Which certificate do you think would be the most revealing? There seem to be quite a lot of marriages going on!

The marriage of Dorothy Hall to Herbert Ash, to see who Dorothy names as her father, and who the witnesses were.

Its possible that your father was mistaken when he said that Dorothy Ash was 'Aunt Ethel's sister'. I'm assuming that you're 100% confident that you have the right Ethel?

[Gardengirl]

Yes, definitely the right Ethel but it’s the Dorothy bit that is unproven. My dad named the niece as Mollie as well and that ties in with the family in the 1939 register.

I’ll get Dorothy’s marriage cert and see where that leads.

[cbcarolyn]

I can't find any marriage record for Walter apart from one in Norfolk which I don't think is him. He was apparently born in Norfolk but I think there is another Walter John HALL in Norfolk. If they never actually got married at all, surely they would have said on the 1911 census that they were married before their first child was born. This is a mystery.


1911 census Ethel Hall crop.jpg

I have ordered the marriage certificate for Dorothy HALL m Herbert ASH which might reveal something. Maybe I should get her birth certificate as well?

I am late to the party on this one, but you have already ordered the cert?