Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Looking for Violet

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #81
    Gardengirl The Violet who died in 1918 was Violet HALL, sister of the Dorothy Hall born 30 Dec 1906 to parents George & Annie Louisa Hall (nee Lane)

    cbcarolyn Pretty Please .... can you check the 1921 census for the age in years & months of (Walter) John Hall to see if it matches with the birth of Walter John Flatt.

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by teasie View Post
      cbcarolyn what does the 1921 census say about (Walter) John Hall's age in years & months?
      First name(s) John
      Last name Hall
      Sex Male
      Birth year 1849
      Census date 19 June 1921
      Age in years 72
      Age in months 5
      Age as transcribed 72 y 5 m
      Relationship to head Head
      Marital status Married
      Birth place Norwich, Norfolk, England
      Birth town Norwich
      Birth county Norfolk
      Birth country England
      Birth place as transcribed Norfolk, Norwich
      Occupation Rubber Stamp Agent
      Occupation code 771
      Occupation code with suffix 771/4
      Employer Own Account
      Employer code 643
      Place of work No Fixed Place
      Language used to complete form English
      Person making return Hall
      House number 1
      Street Gaskarth Road, Balham
      Address 1 Gaskarth Road, Balham
      Full address as transcribed 1 Gaskarth Rd, Balham
      Parish Wandsworth Borough
      Registration district Wandsworth
      Registration district number 26
      Sub-district Balham
      Sub-district number 7
      Enumeration district number 26
      County London, Surrey
      Country England
      Ward of borough or urban district Balham
      Borough, urban or rural district Wandsworth MB
      Parliamentary borough or division Wandsworth PB, Clapham Div.
      Archive The National Archives
      Archive series RG 15
      Piece number 02422
      Schedule number 117
      District reference RD 26 RS 7 ED 26
      Schedule type code E
      Schedule type England household, single page, 10 entries
      Other household member's first name(s) Emily, Ethel Sophia, Claude Alfred
      Other household member's last name Hall, Leslie
      Record set 1921 Census Of England & Wales
      Category Census, land & surveys
      Subcategory Census
      Collections from Great Britain, England​
      Carolyn
      Family Tree site

      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

      Comment


      • #83
        birth - January 1849

        If this is him, he isn't even a Hall...mind blown.
        Last edited by cbcarolyn; 13-02-23, 18:04.
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


        • #84
          I’m completely lost and confused but tomorrow I will draw this out on a big sheet of paper with annotations so I can see who’s who.

          Much as I like Family Historian, it doesn’t help when trying to visualise such a complex set of relationships. Good old pencil and paper and a big rubber should make things clearer.

          In the meantime, I am so very grateful to all of you who have spent considerable time working through all this. If I had your addresses I would send you all a big bunch of flowers!

          You do not have permission to view this gallery.
          This gallery has 1 photos.
          Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

          Comment


          • #85
            72 years & 5 months works back to January 1849, which is an exact match to Walter John Flatt. I think we have him!

            Interesting that although Walter John Flatt Jr said his father was still alive in 1926 (shortly after he'd actually just died), when his brother Edward Frederick Flatt (born 1884) married in 1916, he named his father as Walter John Flatt (deceased).

            I also noticed that when Edward Frederick Flatt joined the Militia in 1904 he made no mention of his father - only his mother & brothers, but when Walter John Jr joined up in 1890 he named his father as Walter John Flatt of 75 Wycliffe Road, Lavender Hill, He was booted out of the army in Oct 1892 as in the August of 1892 he'd been convicted in a civil court of aggravated assault & sentenced to 2 months imprisonment with hard labour.

            This will have been around the time that Emily had just given birth to Walter John Sr's child, Harold Walter Hill.

            I did wonder if the two events were connected, but I can't see anything in the newspapers
            Last edited by teasie; 13-02-23, 18:24.

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
              Ethel was married to Percy CAESAR who was the brother of my father's mother! So Ethel was his aunt through marriage. They were a slightly eccentric couple and never had children so we know very little about their lives.

              Interestingly, I had a look at Percy and Ethel's marriage certificate and noticed that they, too had E. E. L. ASH and a member of the LANE family as their witnesses.

              1923 marriage Ethel and Percy.jpg

              So there is definitely a connection here somewhere. I just hope it doesn't cost me too much in certificates to find it!
              I make this out to be A R Lane, what does everyone else think?
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post

                I make this out to be A R Lane, what does everyone else think?
                I think my eyes must be a bit tired after all this - I read Walter John Halls occupation as Emperor.

                A R Lane looks good to me.
                Linda


                My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                  I’m completely lost and confused but tomorrow I will draw this out on a big sheet of paper with annotations so I can see who’s who.
                  Oh its easy-peasy really 🤣

                  Emily Lott (nee Mercer) had a load of children (including Emily Violet) with her legal husband, William Lott
                  Walter John Flatt had a load of children with his legal wife, Mary Wormsley

                  Around 1892 Emily Lott (nee Mercer) & Walter John Flatt ran off together, changed their surname to Hall, and then had Harold Walter Hall in 1892 followed by Ethel Sophia Hall in 1899.

                  As for Dorothy Hall – I think your father has simply got it wrong as to her relationship with Ethel, but yes, it does look like A R Lane to me.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Absolutley fantastic work, teasie. I am in awe! You not only deserve a bunch of flowers but I think a nice glass of something is probably in order.

                    So, as I haven't drawn it all out yet, what is Dorothy's relationship to Ethel?
                    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      did you see that there is a birth cert on Ancestry


                      teasie did you spot all the baptisms in 1888 and they are in Shirley Grove, also on your map
                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...d=330123512844
                      Last edited by cbcarolyn; 13-02-23, 20:05.
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by teasie View Post

                        Oh its easy-peasy really 🤣

                        Emily Lott (nee Mercer) had a load of children (including Emily Violet) with her legal husband, William Lott
                        Walter John Flatt had a load of children with his legal wife, Mary Wormsley

                        Around 1892 Emily Lott (nee Mercer) & Walter John Flatt ran off together, changed their surname to Hall, and then had Harold Walter Hall in 1892 followed by Ethel Sophia Hall in 1899.

                        As for Dorothy Hall – I think your father has simply got it wrong as to her relationship with Ethel, but yes, it does look like A R Lane to me.

                        so technically they are not Halls at all.....wonder why that was chosen as a surname
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Cracking good job ladies!! Well done. Have a good sleep tonight
                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            ...not me...all Teasie - my mind is blown too!
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                              So, as I haven't drawn it all out yet, what is Dorothy's relationship to Ethel?
                              Well that's the million dollar question - I've absolutely no idea!!!

                              You could try mapping out Dorothy's family tree on both sides (Hall & Lane) to see if they merge with any of the Hall/Flatt/Lott/Ceasar/Ash families in your tree anywhere. Its a big job though, and from the tiny bit of looking I've done they don't even seem to be from the same counties as each other.

                              Also maybe map out the families of Ernest EL Ash and Herbert R Ash to see if they meet up anywhere.

                              I've been trying to get my head around how your father believed he was related to Dorothy & her daughter Mollie, and it's so distant that I think it would be quite unusual for him to know them. Having said that, I'm from a small family so we've always had to pull people in from the fringes to make up the numbers, so I have met my mother's brother's wife' sister's children - many times. I was even at the same school and in the same year as one of them, but I'd still struggle to get all of the relationships right from that side of the 'family'. It might just be that because Dorothy was nee Hall, and so was Ethel, that your father just assumed they were sisters when in fact they weren't.

                              Or you could just put the photo back were it came from and pretend you'd never seen it 😁

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                did you see that there is a birth cert on Ancestry


                                teasie did you spot all the baptisms in 1888 and they are in Shirley Grove, also on your map
                                https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...d=330123512844
                                Yes to both questions.

                                Eland Road, Wycliffe Road, Shirley Grove and Acanthus Road all lead on to Lavender Hill.

                                I'm showing my age now, but maybe we should re-name this lot The Lavender Hill Mob 😅

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by teasie View Post

                                  Well that's the million dollar question - I've absolutely no idea!!!

                                  You could try mapping out Dorothy's family tree on both sides (Hall & Lane) to see if they merge with any of the Hall/Flatt/Lott/Ceasar/Ash families in your tree anywhere. Its a big job though, and from the tiny bit of looking I've done they don't even seem to be from the same counties as each other.

                                  Also maybe map out the families of Ernest EL Ash and Herbert R Ash to see if they meet up anywhere.

                                  I've been trying to get my head around how your father believed he was related to Dorothy & her daughter Mollie, and it's so distant that I think it would be quite unusual for him to know them. Having said that, I'm from a small family so we've always had to pull people in from the fringes to make up the numbers, so I have met my mother's brother's wife' sister's children - many times. I was even at the same school and in the same year as one of them, but I'd still struggle to get all of the relationships right from that side of the 'family'. It might just be that because Dorothy was nee Hall, and so was Ethel, that your father just assumed they were sisters when in fact they weren't.

                                  Or you could just put the photo back were it came from and pretend you'd never seen it 😁
                                  I do agree with your last comment but part of me doesn't want to give up and I'm sure if I chip away at it for long enough I will find a connection. I think for now I need to draw it out and follow up all the various names including the witnesses and spouses.

                                  My Dad didn't say that he was related to Dorothy, just that Dorothy Ash nee Hall was his Aunt Ethel's sister.

                                  I have sketched out a tree this evening and it is much easier to see now what is going on. I'll transfer it all into a tree on Family Historian tomorrow and see what other searches can bring up. A bit more searching in the newspapers might be helpful too.
                                  Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                                    I’m completely lost and confused but tomorrow I will draw this out on a big sheet of paper with annotations so I can see who’s who.

                                    Much as I like Family Historian, it doesn’t help when trying to visualise such a complex set of relationships. Good old pencil and paper and a big rubber should make things clearer.
                                    When you've got them all entered (!) in FH you can use Tools > How Related, and it will show you in text, or you can see it graphically in various ways if there is any blood relationship. That is me on the left and Paul on the right.

                                    relationship.jpg



                                    2023-02-14_075534.jpg
                                    Last edited by Caroline; 14-02-23, 08:00.
                                    Caroline
                                    Caroline's Family History Pages
                                    Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Well done everyone.

                                      Totally confused who is related to who but looking forward to seeing how close the people you were interested in are related.
                                      Lin

                                      Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        That's amazing, Caroline! I do enjoy learning about the FH software just as much as I enjoy the actual research. I made a rough chart in the diagrams bit last night, just using simple lines and text boxes. Is there a thread on here somewhere to ask about FH software? I don't want to sidetrack this thread with software chatter.
                                        Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent), DRAYSON (Canterbury, Kent), CRISP (Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                        Comment


                                        • if you are on ancestry, this chap has done lots of research on the Flatt tree and has put up certs etc. He hasn't worked out that he morphed into a Hall, he just knows he disappeared

                                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...23512844/facts. these will be Ethel half siblings.

                                          none are blood as Ethel related by marriage to Percy, but an interesting lot of family for Ethel!
                                          Carolyn
                                          Family Tree site

                                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X