Looking for Violet

[Gardengirl]

Yes, I have ordered the marriage cert for Dorothy HALL m Herbert ASH.

Still looking for a birth record for Dorothy but I'm struggling to find anything for her apart from the birth date that she gave in the 1939 register which was 30 Dec 1906

[Darksecretz]

Still looking for a birth record for Dorothy but I'm struggling to find anything for her apart from the birth date that she gave in the 1939 register which was 30 Dec 1906

That might not be 100% correct, I have come across quite a few births stating that it was xxx date when in fact the day was right but the month and year not so. You need to keep an open mind, My grandmothers birthday was actually the 18th of January, but she told everyone [including her children] that her birthday was the 10th! her birth registration docket had been folded and over the years the top part of the 8 had worn away!..

[Gardengirl]

Good point. I have generally been using 1900-1910 for my searches but I'm running out of ideas.

[teasie]

The most obvious one is the Dorothy Hall born in Sandwich, Kent, the daughter of George and Annie Louisa. She is with them in 1911 in Sandwich along with her sister Edith Hall.

Dorothy's baptism has been transcribed on FmP as baptised 3 Mar 1907 born 30 Dec 1907, which is obviously nonsense - the image confirms it as 30 Dec 1906


HALL, DOROTHY mmn LANE GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in EASTRY Volume 02A Page 1087

[teasie]

I've had a quick look to see if there is any obvious connection to 'your' Hall family, but there doesn't seem to be one.

George Hall was born 19 Nov 1878 in Banbury, Oxfordshire, and is on the census there with his parents William & Mary A. William is a Hair Dresser born Hythe, Kent.

Dorothy's sister, Edith, is still unmarried in 1939 and is living with her (now widowed) father in Eastry. Her DoB is 23 Jul 1904, which matches her baptism. She died unmarried in 1976.

[Gardengirl]

Good idea. I'll try that in the morning. Don't suppose there will be anyone there on a Sunday.


Edit - I found an online form which seemed quite straightforward so hopefully it won't be too late.

reply from GRO

Thank you for your enquiry.
Once an order has been placed, there is no facility to either cancel or amend it.
All orders feed directly into our production process. Our system prompts users to this effect before proceeding to the online checkout.
Therefore, we are unable to cancel your order.

Oh well, I think I did need it really

[Gardengirl]

Still looking for a birth record for Dorothy but I'm struggling to find anything for her apart from the birth date that she gave in the 1939 register which was 30 Dec 1906

Her death in 1981 also gives the same birth date so that is a small step in the right direction.


Name Dorothy Ash
Death Age 74
Birth Date 30 December 1906
Registration Date Q3 1981
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District Dover
Inferred County Kent
Volume 16
Page 0970
Source.Title England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Source.Part1 General Register Office
Source.Part2 United Kingdom
Source.Volume 16
Source.Page 0970
Source.Citation General Register Office; United Kingdom; Volume: 16; Page: 0970
Record ID 7579::47367139
URL https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery.../47367139:7579
Image Page URL https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...9813az-0023

[Gardengirl]

Have I found her? Was she Walter's daughter?

image.png
Record ID 1558::19152703
URL https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery.../19152703:1558
Name Dorothy Hall
Record Type Baptism
Baptism Date 2 January 1907
Baptism Place St James, Hatcham, Lewisham, England
Father Walter Herbert Hall
Mother Ellen Hall
Source.Title London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1923
Source.Part1 London Metropolitan Archives
Source.Part2 London, England
Source.Part3 London Church of England Parish Registers
Source.Reference Number P75/JS1/051
Source.Citation London Metropolitan Archives; London, England; London Church of England Parish Registers; Reference Number: P75/JS1/051

[Gardengirl]

Walter married Ellen CLAXTON in 1905. The marriage that we found earlier (to Annie Walsh) was his second marriage.

Marriage	Mar 1905	Claxton	Ellen		Islington	1b	476
Marriage	Mar 1905	HALL	Walter Herbert		Islington	1b	476

[Darksecretz]

oooh well done you for persevering with it

[Gardengirl]

I didn’t think to look at Walter Herbert for a marriage and children but it seems an obvious line of enquiry now. Still quite a few more loose ends to tie up but that can wait - my brain is weary now!

[Gardengirl]

Walter married Ellen CLAXTON in 1905. The marriage that we found earlier (to Annie Walsh) was his second marriage.

Marriage	Mar 1905	Claxton	Ellen		Islington	1b	476
Marriage	Mar 1905	HALL	Walter Herbert		Islington	1b	476

Bother! - he was born in 1892 so would have been 12 years old

More bother! Who is Walter herbert? My man was Harold Walter!

I'm going to lie down in a darkened room ........

[teasie]

Did you miss my post #44 ADDED: (and #45)

Baptism of Dorothy Hall in Sandwich, Kent with exactly the correct Date of Birth?

[teasie]

Image below, DoB 30 Dec 1906

Dorothy Hall.jpg

[Gardengirl]

Sorry, teasie, I must have skimmed over that one. I’ll follow it up tomorrow. Do you think that is her?

[teasie]

Sorry, teasie, I must have skimmed over that one. I’ll follow it up tomorrow. Do you think that is her?

I think she's the one who married Herbert Ash, yes. Her birth is in the same registration district as the marriage (Eastry), and she has the same DoB as the 1939 register and death registration for Dorothy Ash.

What I don't understand is how she's supposed to fit into your family, because I don't see any connection at all to the people we've been tracking.

[Gardengirl]

OK, thanks. So that is definitely the Dorothy ASH nee HALL that my Dad named but it looks as if he was wrong about her sister relationship to his Aunt Ethel.

He must have had a fair amount of knowledge / contact with her to know her married and maiden name and if Ethel was my Dad's aunt and Dorothy was Ethel's sister then Mollie (Dorothy's daughter) must have been a cousin to my Dad. But I don't remember her being mentioned although he did talk about his other cousins.

So help me with some possible scenarios...

The one that comes to mind is that Dorothy HALL was the child of one of Ethel's family but came to live with them and was brought up with them as a sibling? So I really need to order this certificate

HALL, DOROTHY	LANE
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in EASTRY Volume 02A Page 1087

[cbcarolyn]

both Violet and Dorothy married a Mr Ash - are they related that way?

edit can't see a connection but interesting same surname as not that common

[teasie]

The one that comes to mind is that Dorothy HALL was the child of one of Ethel's family but came to live with them and was brought up with them as a sibling? So I really need to order this certificate

HALL, DOROTHY	LANE
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in EASTRY Volume 02A Page 1087

I'm not really following your logic. Dorothy Hall b 30 Dec 1906 is on the 1911 and 1921 census with her parents George & Annie Louisa.

I can find no connection whatsoever between George Hall and 'your' Hall family, although having said that, Walter John is a complete mystery as he seems to appear from nowhere. In 1921 he is transcribed only as John (I don't have access to the images) but I still can't trace him back before the 'marriage that never was'.

[teasie]

Here are the details from George & Annie Louise's marriage at Sandwich on 31 Mar 1901

George HALL 22 Bachelor, Labourer [of] Cattle Market, Sandwich. Father = William Hall, Hairdresser
Annie Louisa LANE 21 Spinster, same address. Father = Henry Richard Lane, Accountant to Fruiterer
Wits: Richard Edward Emmanuel Bailey PITTOCK & Ada Charlotte HALL

They are all together on the 1901 census at RG13, Piece 831, Folio 66, Page 22

Richard EEB Pittock's wife is Caroline Ann (nee Hall), sister of George Hall & Ada Charlotte Hall.

These Hall's were all born in Banbury, Oxfordshire, and I can't see any connection to Walter John Hall who was said to be from Norwich, Norfolk