Gretna green wedding causing issues!

[GallowayLass]

I am stumped finding a possible Anthony or Charles Lockley or variant on the UK census in 1861.

[GallowayLass]

The burial record I was looking at says Anthony Lockey aged 66 buried 2 Feb 1893 at St Otteran's Burial Ground, Waterford. Died in Hospital, but I can't quite make out which one.

ADDED: Just realised its a moot point now anyway!

I have just gone and rechecked that death I found. I had written wrong age.
It actually says 60. The death above his was aged 80.
Anthony in the cert died the very same day as the burial you found. His place of death was “Hospital of the Holy Ghost” and his widow Hannah’s residence was Cathedral Square. Does that tally with the burial record?

[teasie]

The closest I can find on 'first sweep' is HENRY Lockley born c1830 Cannock, Staffordshire, but he's nowhere near Ipswich, Gretna, Maryport, or anywhere else mentioned so far!!.

1851 at Shut End, Kingswinford, Stourbridge
Henery Lockley 21 Iron Masters Clerk b Cannock, Staffordshire

1861 at Corbyns Hall Lodge, Corbyns Hall Street, Kingswinford, Staffordshire (transcribed on FmP as Henry Lorbley)
Henry Lockley 31 Ironmasters Clerk b Kingswinford, Staffordshire

He appears to have died in Stourbridge RD in 1869, and his mother's maiden name was Grovenor.

So apart from the surname, occupation and him being dead by 1871, nothing else seems to tie in

[queenbee]

hmmmm what if Anthony was already married away in Ireland and to save face when James asked about his dad she 'made up' Charles ironfounders clerk? has hubby done a DNA test? that might be an avenue to explore.

Would this still be the case is Charles is the informant???

[GallowayLass]

Ancestry are having sale right now on their DNA kits so it’s the perfect time for hubby to take a test. The cost of the basic test is £59 + shipping (a tenner I think) till mid November. It’s normally £79 + shipping.
You could add your tree as a guest user. If you build the tree with the assumption that James was the child of the Gretna marriage you can then add Charles as an alternative parent. Once the DNA results come back, make sure you have the tree linked to the results and wait to see if any matches appear that break down the brick wall.
The DNA raw file can also be uploaded to other sites such as ftDNA, LivingDNA (they have a tie in with FMP), MyHeritage and GEDMatch. Uploads are free but you will need to pay a one off fee to access their tools. It is best to fish in as many ponds as you can.
Another main company is 23andme. However, like ancestry they do not accept uploads from other providers so keep an eye out for one of their kit sales.

[queenbee]

Hubby has done an ancestry dna test - Xmas present a couple of years ago.

but I've never used it as a research aid. Not sure what I'm looking for. Tree on ancestry has husband as the start person and I've put james's father as Charles and Anthony as a marriage.

I'll change it to Anthony as alternative parent to they're both linked to James

[Anne in Carlisle]

What if Charles and Anthony were the same person? I've seen stranger name alterations/mixups on certificates! Perhaps Charles sometimes called himself Anthony or vice versa. Perhaps the Gretna marriage recorder had an Anthony at the previous wedding or maybe a dram too many!!
Just a thought!
Anne

[queenbee]

What if Charles and Anthony were the same person? I've seen stranger name alterations/mixups on certificates! Perhaps Charles sometimes called himself Anthony or vice versa. Perhaps the Gretna marriage recorder had an Anthony at the previous wedding or maybe a dram too many!!
Just a thought!
Anne

At this point it seems that anything is possible!! But we've had no luck finding either of them which is really just very odd and frustrating.

Although a little bit of me is pleased that better researchers than me are struggling - means I wasn't just being thick! :D

[GallowayLass]

Although a little bit of me is pleased that better researchers than me are struggling - means I wasn't just being thick! :D

Says who we’re better? Maybe some of us might be a bit more bl**dy minded (me ) and don’t like admitting defeat!

[queenbee]

Well don't let me stop you from being tenacious! I feel like I know lots more about this part of the family but also not much more!

[GallowayLass]

Well don't let me stop you from being tenacious! I feel like I know lots more about this part of the family but also not much more!

[cbcarolyn]

I have just gone and rechecked that death I found. I had written wrong age.
It actually says 60. The death above his was aged 80.
Anthony in the cert died the very same day as the burial you found. His place of death was “Hospital of the Holy Ghost” and his widow Hannah’s residence was Cathedral Square. Does that tally with the burial record?

NB there are a few newspaper articles about Antony Lockey in Cathredal Square, I looked yesterday, but wasn't telling much.

[cbcarolyn]

The plot thickens..... James' bcc landes in my mail box this morning. Father is......

Charles Lockley, ironfounders clerk from Ipswich!!!!

So Anthony only appears in Gretna Green and no where else.

so who is Charles??

what is the address on the cert?

Did the father have to be present at registration? so he would have to be real?

[queenbee]

Address is Arthur Street, St Helens, Ipswich.

Charles is the informant, it might be modern thinking but is this not recording the person actually telling the registrar. Or was it just always recorded as the father??

[queenbee]

I dont know if trade directories might help. Even to fill in Elizabeth's travels as she was a dressmaker.

[Anne in Carlisle]

Yes, if Charles is listed in the 'informant' as well as 'father' column he was actually present.
Anne

[queenbee]

Yes, if Charles is listed in the 'informant' as well as 'father' column he was actually present.
Anne

Well then we know he actually really did exist!! And where he was for at least 1 day :D

[cbcarolyn]

there are some records at Ipswich archives for an ironfounders, https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/N13618060

[GallowayLass]

Great Britain Philatelic Society
Link to a document listing various gazetteers in England. Norfolk begins on p.65

https://www.gbps.org.uk/information/...d%20(2020).pdf

[Darksecretz]

Would this still be the case is Charles is the informant???

then nope! if he was an informant then he was there informing...

what sort of YOB do we have for him around 1826? or a bit earlier?