Gretna green wedding causing issues!

[queenbee]

Hi, any help on the below much appreciated.

James Leegriz Lockley born 12th Dec 1856. Mother Elizabeth Emma Gilman

father is the question mark.

Elizabeth married in Gretna Green on 16th April 1855, to Anthony Lockley. However Elizabeth never appears on a census with a husband so i have no other records of her spouse.

However James' marriage certificate lists a Charles Lockley as his father. I don't know if Charles and Anthony are the same person or not. I have no more information on either of them.

So if your up for a challenge.......
this is a direct line so would be great to push through

[GallowayLass]

Just making sure here before I go haring off looking.
Is this the birth entry of the child with a different spelling to the middle name and born a year earlier? Also if you have that cert., am I right in thinking there’s no father’s name given?

LOCKLEY, JAMES LEEGURY	GILMAN
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in IPSWICH Volume 04A Page 585

[cbcarolyn]

what was Anthonys occupation?

[annette.humphreys]

I can't even find the 1855 marriage listed on Gretna Green marriages! The only reference to it I can find is on an Ancestry tree.

[queenbee]

I've got some copy of the Gretna Green marriage so I know it deff happened!

just doubled checked my documents, birth registration is 1856 1Q for Ipswich with the middle name spelt Leegryg. Birth date 12 Dec 1856 (but think I've got that wrong and it should be 1855) can't see that I've got a Birth certificate. Ordering now

marriage for James gives his father as Charles, dead. Marriage was Jan 18 1875 in Hammersmith.

no more info on Anthony, Gretna Green certs don't show occupation and he is not mentioned on any other paper work I can find.

Elizabeth is on 1861, 71 &81 census without a husband. Showing as widowed in 1881 &71 but married in 61 and lodging with james.

[GallowayLass]

I've got some copy of the Gretna Green marriage so I know it deff happened!

Could you post please, where exactly in / around Gretna Green the marriage took place? When I’m in Dumfries next week, I will go and have a look to see what’s available in the Archives at the the main library. Where did you source your copy from?

[queenbee]

The certificate is a copy provided by my inlaws.

Regarding the location, would it be Allison's Bank Toll House? I've not seen a Gretna Green cert before but apart from Gretna and Dumfries this is the only other place listed.

GallowayLass thank you so much! I'd never be able to get up there.

[GallowayLass]

Oh that’s good. The place is Allisons’ Toll Bar and the Ewart library holds 16 bound volumes covering 1843-1865. You have me right intrigued here. I might just go in on OH’s bus on Monday morning and see what they have. I usually take the car in for shopping on a Thursday but the weather is forecast to be chucking it down all week so no point in waiting till then.

[cbcarolyn]

the Leegryg/Leegriz sounds intriguing, quite a few Leegris or similar in Norfolk, have you found any incidence of this name in the mothers line? I found a few trees on ancestry and wasn't seeing it anywhere, so maybe from fathers side

[queenbee]

No. Nothing in the mother's name - which is where I was expecting to see it. Its unusual enough that if it is a family name it'll be good evidence of a connection.

[cbcarolyn]

I assume that they travelled together to Gretna to get married? Although Elizabeth was born in 1826 so was 29 at the time

I can't find her in 1851, trying to find where she was before - do you have this? Logically thinking husband would have been close by?


"Elizabeth married in Gretna Green on 16th April 1855, to Anthony Lockley.

James Leegriz Lockley born 12th Dec 1855. Mother Elizabeth Emma Gilman"

Elizabeth's (born Norwich) parents are Rebecca Calver and Thomas Gillman I have Rebecca in Hammersmith in 1871 and Suffolk in 1841

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...d=162420578945

I do have a 49 year old midwife a lodger Rebecca Smith in Suffolk in 1851, could be mother with wrong surname.

Elizabeth is in Hammersmith as a widow in 1861, but went to Norfolk as James registered there.

[Darksecretz]

Leegriz sounds french to me. The Grey?

The surname Legris is a name of ancient French origin. It was a Breton name given to a person with gray hair. The name Legris is derived from the Old French word "gris," which means "gray," and was often given to someone with gray hair.

https://www.houseofnames.com/legris-...%20gray%20hair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legris

[cbcarolyn]

Maybe there will be something in the Gretna records, they don't have to declare their addresses where they normally live? did you say you had a copy of the record?

I would have thought that there should be a lockley death in Suffolk or Hammersmith, unless he just off and went, and death wasn't the reason.

[queenbee]

I dont have Elizabeth pre 1861, she's not with her mother Rebecca Gilman (née Calver)

Could Anthony and Charles be the same person? Middle and first name in either order??

[Darksecretz]

I dont have Elizabeth pre 1861, she's not with her mother Rebecca Gilman (née Calver)

Could Anthony and Charles be the same person? Middle and first name in either order??

Yes!
or they could be brothers

it might also be that James didn't know his fathers name and guessed at his name?

[Darksecretz]

queenbee what was Elizabeth Emma Gilmans place and date of birth please?

[queenbee]

Emma Gilman born 2nd June 1825 (from baptism record) in Norwich.

Baptism was in 1836 in the parish of Redenhall, Harleston & Wortwell, but has an interesting note. The whole entry is on the side of the register and reads:

Dec 28th 1836 Emma Eliz (born 2/6/1825) dau of thomas &Rebecca Gilman. Was received into the church, having been (according to her parents testimony) baptised in the parish of Stephens Norwich by the Vicar Revd Drake, at his own home.

[Darksecretz]

This might be Elizabeth in 1851 I can't see her in England:

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=xxf4745&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=1076&gsfn=elizabeth%20emma&gsln=gilman&cp=11&msmng=rebecca&msbdy=1826&msbpn__ftp=norwich,%20norfolk,%20england,%20united%20kingdom&msbpn=86107&qh=89e75f64514e12a8cdac3032f941f6db&new=1&rank=1&uidh=lg3&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=1&h=3315282&recoff=&ml_rpos=2&queryId=6230096f10669c377d96a089d8e303b0&_gl=1*bmwxeo*_ga*MTI1ODA1MTU0OS4xNjQ1ODk5NTA4*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*MTY2NDc4OTQ5NC4yOTAuMS4xNjY0NzkwMzE3LjAuMC4w

[Darksecretz]

and in 1841: in Suffolk

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource &gsfn=elizabeth+emma&gsln=gilman&ml_rpos=1&quer yId =a0104bb88179626541d11d1f4f0a46dc

Source Citation
Class: HO107; Piece: 1023; Book: 7; Civil Parish: Eye; County: Suffolk; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: 8; Page: 10; Line: 10; GSU roll: 474637

[GallowayLass]

This might be Elizabeth in 1851 I can't see her in England:

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...kwMzE3LjAuMC4w

That’s good possibility. I’m setting off now to the Archives. Hopefully there will be an extra bit of info there that will help.