Help finding Italian ancestor

[StarQueen]

I've been trying to research an ancestor through my mother's line - a man named Antoine Clermont (1690-1765) but I've hit a dead end.

According to what I know, he was married to Marie Jeanne Weillot/Villiotte and both immigrated to Louisiana on the ship "Venus" embarking from L'Orient, France. When she died in port, he left both his daughters in the orphanage at Urusline Convent in New Orleans and quickly re-marrried to a Susanne Metz.

On his marriage record to Susanne Metz, it states "October 12, 1732 - Antoine Clermont called St Antoine, sergeant in the Company of Mr. Renault, native of Naples, widower of Marie Jeanne Villiotte, who died at L'Orient, and Susanne Mertz, native of Keistatte? widow of Joseph Rister (or Kisler) who died in Louisiana." Research from others say that he was a sergeant in "Plantin's Company".

Here's what I'm wanting to know - how did a man with a very French name end up in Naples, Italy? Northern Italy would make sense being that most of my French ancestors lived along the borders. But central Italy? That I can't grasp.

I did some research and wasn't able to locate any Clermonts living in Italy except a Bartholomew "Tristan" de Clermont-Lodève (1380 – c. 1432), Count of Copertino, who was a French-born knight who married Catherine Orsini del Balzo. They lived in Naples, I believe.

Is it possible that my Antoine Clermont was a descendant through this line? Or have there been other Clermont families living in/around that area? Otherwise, I'm at a bit of a loss here.

If anyone could help me uncover some documents or point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful!

[kylejustin]

Do you have the marriage to the first wife in lorient? That should also say where he came from and probably his parents names. Also the baptisms of his children there will tell you their godparents, which may be family members.

naples will have many churches, and you will need something more concrete than naples to go on.

[StarQueen]

Do you have the marriage to the first wife in lorient? That should also say where he came from and probably his parents names. Also the baptisms of his children there will tell you their godparents, which may be family members.

naples will have many churches, and you will need something more concrete than naples to go on.

No, unfortunately I don't. I've never found a copy for the first marriage nor baptismals for his daughters. Although I do know that the eldest was born in Issoudun and the youngest in Bayonne according to their marriage records. If only that second marriage record had been more specific or gave more info...

[kylejustin]

Most french parish records are online and free to trawl through on the departemental archives. Probably best to locate the births of the kids, and see if the parents married in either parish. Wife's burial in lorient may help too.

[StarQueen]

Most french parish records are online and free to trawl through on the departemental archives. Probably best to locate the births of the kids, and see if the parents married in either parish. Wife's burial in lorient may help too.

That's a great idea! I'll have to look and see if I can find a website that offers those. I searched on Ancestry and FamilySearch but still came up with nothing on records for Antoine or his family.

[kylejustin]

American websites are useless for researching european ancestry. If you want french records, you need to look at geneanet and filae. Geneanet may have some family trees with your family, they are very good for french trees. Filae has been indexing french census, civil registration and 18th century parish records. Neither site covers all of france or even half, but they are good to start.

failing either site having records, you will need to know what department the towns you want are in. Lorient is in morbihan, and you can look through the parish registers on the morbihan archives website. French records are usually very detailed, so even if you can locate some records and it's not clearly stated where the family are from or who parents are, wittnesses or godparents often will help reveal relationships.

[StarQueen]

American websites are useless for researching european ancestry. If you want french records, you need to look at geneanet and filae. Geneanet may have some family trees with your family, they are very good for french trees. Filae has been indexing french census, civil registration and 18th century parish records. Neither site covers all of france or even half, but they are good to start.

failing either site having records, you will need to know what department the towns you want are in. Lorient is in morbihan, and you can look through the parish registers on the morbihan archives website. French records are usually very detailed, so even if you can locate some records and it's not clearly stated where the family are from or who parents are, wittnesses or godparents often will help reveal relationships.

Thank you for the suggestions! I looked through records on Geneanet but no luck on the Clermont family and just signed up to Filae. I did find some records that could be the right family but I can't access them. Are any of the Filae records free to view? With the economy right now, I'm unable to buy premium to view them if so.

[PhotoFamily]

Don't I remember that some of your peeps were from Natchitoches, Louisiana?

This is quite a reach, but it caught my eye - note the Clermont name.

George Damon Tessier of Natchitoches, Louisiana : his forebears and descendants
Includes, Tessier, DeBaillon, Denys, Gradenico, Fortenot, Clermont and related families.

George Damon Tessier married Marie Emilie DeBaillon in 1858 and raised a family in Natchitoches, Louisiana. Their ancestry was from France, Italy and Germany. Descendants and relatives lived in Louisiana, Arizona, Tennessee, Kansas, Texas, California, and elsewhere.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/621128?availability=Family%20History%20Library

I know, you don't have access, but let me know if you're interested

Also, in the "note"
Bibliography: p. 135-138.
It makes me wonder if they have entire book or just the bibliography.

[StarQueen]

Don't I remember that some of your peeps were from Natchitoches, Louisiana?

This is quite a reach, but it caught my eye - note the Clermont name.

George Damon Tessier of Natchitoches, Louisiana : his forebears and descendants
Includes, Tessier, DeBaillon, Denys, Gradenico, Fortenot, Clermont and related families.

George Damon Tessier married Marie Emilie DeBaillon in 1858 and raised a family in Natchitoches, Louisiana. Their ancestry was from France, Italy and Germany. Descendants and relatives lived in Louisiana, Arizona, Tennessee, Kansas, Texas, California, and elsewhere.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/621128?availability=Family%20History%20Library

I know, you don't have access, but let me know if you're interested

Also, in the "note"
Bibliography: p. 135-138.
It makes me wonder if they have entire book or just the bibliography.

Yep, one and the same! Once the Clermonts immigrated from France to New Orleans, over the years the family eventually settled in Natchitoches. In fact, pretty much all of my mom's Creole family lived in New Orleans for a time before moving to Natchitoches.

Oh, that's interesting! I've never heard of the Tessier family before but being from Natchitoches? Gotta be the same Clermont family, I would assume. Definitely, yeah! I would love to know more about them.

[PhotoFamily]

"Family History Off-site Storage"
Groan. Who knows what that means.

I don't suppose you're near any of the libraries listed on WorldCat?

https://www.worldcat.org/title/866670573

Notice that World cat says there are two editions. Also, they have a longer list of names
Subjects: Clermont
DeBaillon
Denys
Families
Fortenot
Genealogy
Gradenico
Louisiana Natchitoches
Natchitoches (La.) Genealogy
Tessier
Tessier family
Tessier, George Damon, 1831-1903
Tessier, George Damon, 1831-1903 Family


and a better description of the book

Physical Description:v, 138 pages, 44 unnumbered pages of plates : illustrations, facsimiles, genealogical tables, maps, portraits

[PhotoFamily]

I'm gonna let you try this out (please post how it goes)
But this seems to indicate that there's a downloadable version - go to the second listing

https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au=%22Smith,%20Evelyn%20T.%22

[StarQueen]

"Family History Off-site Storage"
Groan. Who knows what that means.

I don't suppose you're near any of the libraries listed on WorldCat?

https://www.worldcat.org/title/866670573

Notice that World cat says there are two editions. Also, they have a longer list of names
Subjects: Clermont
DeBaillon
Denys
Families
Fortenot
Genealogy
Gradenico
Louisiana Natchitoches
Natchitoches (La.) Genealogy
Tessier
Tessier family
Tessier, George Damon, 1831-1903
Tessier, George Damon, 1831-1903 Family


and a better description of the book

Physical Description:v, 138 pages, 44 unnumbered pages of plates : illustrations, facsimiles, genealogical tables, maps, portraits

Yes! This worked great, thank you! Apparently, George Damon Tessier was indeed descended from the same Clermonts as myself. However, I wasn't able to locate further info on the line - it doesn't look to have anything on them past the little I know about Antoine.

[PhotoFamily]

I don't suppose you're near any of the libraries listed on WorldCat?

https://www.worldcat.org/title/866670573

And you don't live near any of the libraries listed in that link, that would make it easy for you to go to the site and read the book?

[StarQueen]

And you don't live near any of the libraries listed in that link, that would make it easy for you to go to the site and read the book?

No, unfortunately I don't. The closest one is several hours away at the minimum. I may have to look and see if I can find a copy to buy elsewhere - then maybe it can help me to figure out more on the Clermonts and where they originated.

[Mary from Italy]

It's quite possible that Antoine was born in Naples with an Italian name, which he Frenchified when he moved to France.

His original name could have been something like Antonio Chiaramonte, and that surname certainly exists in the Naples area.

This isn't necessarily your family, but you might find it interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_of_Clermont

https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/isabella-chiaramonte-regina-di-napoli_%28Dizionario-Biografico%29/

[Mary from Italy]

This site shows the distribution of surnames in Italy.

http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turismo-viaggi-e-tradizioni-italia#.Yw-SpLtBw2w

I suspect they've taken the names from the phone book, because mine is included, and I certainly don't have an Italian surname, although I live there!

As you'll see, both Clermont and Chiaramonte/Chiaromonte can be found in the Naples area, although Chiaramonte is far more common.

[StarQueen]

It's quite possible that Antoine was born in Naples with an Italian name, which he Frenchified when he moved to France.

His original name could have been something like Antonio Chiaramonte, and that surname certainly exists in the Naples area.

This isn't necessarily your family, but you might find it interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_of_Clermont

https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/isabella-chiaramonte-regina-di-napoli_%28Dizionario-Biografico%29/

Hm, I hadn't thought of that but that could very well be! I had another ancestor who was French by descent named Pierre who, upon moving to a part of Louisiana controlled by the Spanish, changed his name to Pedro briefly. So that could be possible. I hadn't considered that but you're right. Oh, wow, that's interesting! I wonder if my Antoine could be a descendant of that family. That's definitely worth looking into if I can find a line of descent that still used the Clermont surname. It's definitely the right area of Italy!

[Mary from Italy]

It's certainly worth having a look, but it seems to be a fairly common name down south, so your ancestors weren't necessarily aristocrats.

As he was described as a "native of Naples" when he married, that's very likely to be his birthplace, but he may also have been from one of the villages near the city of Naples.

[Mary from Italy]

FamilySearch have transcribed some records for the Naples area, but I don't think they have baptisms going back that far.

[StarQueen]

It's certainly worth having a look, but it seems to be a fairly common name down south, so your ancestors weren't necessarily aristocrats.

As he was described as a "native of Naples" when he married, that's very likely to be his birthplace, but he may also have been from one of the villages near the city of Naples.

I hadn't considered that but it would make sense - I mean, Naples was the biggest city in that area at the time. He definitely could've been from somewhere nearby and they just put down Naples because it was closest.

As for the baptismals, I've looked into the best I could and did find one Antoine Jean Clermont born in Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne. I've even some some family trees that have attached this as a birth place instead (even seen Michel mentioned as a name for him) but I can't verify that it is him either way.