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  • Advice please

    I am trying to find Keith Andrew, I have him on the 1937 register and his DOB is shown as 13 March 1899, I have his marriage certificate he married Mary Mehetable KELLY in
    1921, in Hendon, and it states his father is Walter Andrew, occupation, Surveyor. I cannot find Keith's birth record, it has been suggested now that he may have been adopted, but I thought that there is always a birth certificate for an adoptee after they were adopted. I have previously researched two other adopted trees and was lucky to find birth registrations which led me to finding the adoption details through an intermediary. The witness's on the MC are no help as the surnames are, William Albert, and Louisa Smith. I have found his death details and Wife's family records which has not helped. I have to go out so wont be able to reply for a while.

    Can anyone help please.
    GWEN

  • #2
    Not found much but his death register said he was born 13 Mar 1897.

    Marys death register says born 7 Dec 1894. Both dates different to 1939 register

    Also Mary left a will which might be of help to you if she left anything to nieces and nephews.

    Electoral registers 1929 Hanwell Middlesex
    Keith Andrews 2 Elthorne Ave
    Mary Metetable Andrews
    Hilda Mabel Ford
    Thomas Charles Ford. address as above.

    Do these people ring a bell or they could be in separate flats?
    Lin

    Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

    Comment


    • #3
      In the 1901 census in Bournemouth is a Walter Andrew, architect and surveyor.
      https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...901/0009525343
      or
      https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...try&h=24831902

      In the household is Keith Smith b1899 son of housekeeper.

      Walter Andrew died in Ireland 1911 but probate filed in UK. Quite a wealthy individual. Will be worth getting his Will.
      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...6&pId=17559660

      In baptism of Keith Andrew 1912 at Paddington. Father: Walter deceased, architect. Side comment "mothers details known"
      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...168103875:1558

      May be worth researching further.
      Last edited by keldon; 11-05-22, 12:04.
      Phil
      historyhouse.co.uk
      Essex - family and local history.

      Comment


      • #4
        1911 in Bournemouth with the name Keith Walter Smith. Then image 293 of schedule shows it is the address of W Andrews deceased.
        https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...NTIyNjk0NTYuMA..
        or
        https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...4/12284/0291/4
        Last edited by keldon; 11-05-22, 12:40. Reason: Edit. Not having any luck at the moment on a birth certificate. I'm out of time now.
        Phil
        historyhouse.co.uk
        Essex - family and local history.

        Comment


        • #5
          wow thank you everyone it looks like that will be a help have to dash out again which is a pain, but we have house viewings but cant wait to get back and view what you found
          a bib big thank you.
          GWEN

          Comment


          • #6
            Bournemouth Graphic 08 September 1911
            "The late Mr Walter Andrew of Parkstone, left estate of the value of £11,177. He bequeathed the whole of his property to Keith Smith and Roberta Owen."

            There is an obituary in the Bournemouth Graphic 07 April 1911 and a photograph of him. No mention a wife or children.
            Another one in the Bournemouth Daily Echo 31 March 1911. Again no mention of family.

            The funeral in great detail in the Bournemouth Daily Echo 04 April 1911. A large turnout of the great and good of Bournemouth. Names. But no family mentioned.

            All on BNA.
            Last edited by keldon; 11-05-22, 15:36.
            Phil
            historyhouse.co.uk
            Essex - family and local history.

            Comment


            • #7
              You definitely need the Will. Roberta Owen appears to be the person in the 1911 census referred to above.
              Phil
              historyhouse.co.uk
              Essex - family and local history.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well done Keldon. Had to go out this afternoon but I would have struggled to sort that out.
                Lin

                Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi All Thank you for the details I'm pretty sure he is the one I am looking for, now for the fun to begin by researching and seeing who is who in the Smith family and trying to find a birth record I suspect he was born out of wedlock. But I will check mums details . Thank you again.
                  GWEN

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by keldon View Post
                    Bournemouth Graphic 08 September 1911
                    "The late Mr Walter Andrew of Parkstone, left estate of the value of £11,177. He bequeathed the whole of his property to Keith Smith and Roberta Owen."

                    There is an obituary in the Bournemouth Graphic 07 April 1911 and a photograph of him. No mention a wife or children.
                    Another one in the Bournemouth Daily Echo 31 March 1911. Again no mention of family.

                    The funeral in great detail in the Bournemouth Daily Echo 04 April 1911. A large turnout of the great and good of Bournemouth. Names. But no family mentioned.

                    All on BNA.
                    How can I get the records for this please and I have never applied for a will where do I go to get a copy and what is the BNA THanks
                    Last edited by Gwen@coggiecorner; 12-05-22, 09:11.
                    GWEN

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gwen@coggiecorner View Post

                      How can I get the records for this please and I have never applied for a will where do I go to get a copy and what is the BNA THanks
                      Sorry, my fault, I assumed from the number of your postings that you would know. It's the British Newspaper Archive. Either here https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/index.php or on Find my past with a full subscription. Unfortunately, I cannot copy you the articles. Perhaps a kind soul here might be able to.

                      You order Wills from here
                      https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/
                      The information you will need is:
                      Walter Andrew
                      Date of Death: 25 January 1911
                      Date of Probate: 11 March 1911
                      Registry: London

                      It's a confusing site but the relevant entry appears on document page number 7.
                      Last edited by keldon; 12-05-22, 09:48.
                      Phil
                      historyhouse.co.uk
                      Essex - family and local history.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by keldon View Post

                        Sorry, my fault, I assumed from the number of your postings that you would know. It's the British Newspaper Archive. Either here https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/index.php or on Find my past with a full subscription. Unfortunately, I cannot copy you the articles. Perhaps a kind soul here might be able to.

                        You order Wills from here
                        https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/
                        The information you will need is:
                        Walter Andrew
                        Date of Death: 25 January 1911
                        Date of Probate: 11 March 1911
                        Registry: London

                        It's a confusing site but the relevant entry appears on document page number 7.
                        Thank you my brain not functioning this morning I did know but not used to abbreviations I have full sub on FMP so will look thank you for all you help. I found Keith on the 1911 census return living in Poole Dorset with Roberta Owen and it states he is her nephew. thanks again for all you help.
                        GWEN

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If I’m reading this thread correctly, you are now fairly confident that Walter Andrew is Keith’s natural father?
                          So more info on Walter:
                          Here’s his death in Sligo, 31 March 1911 - frustratingly his death is just a few days ahead of the census which started 2 April - it would have been interesting to know who he was visiting. As in 1901 census, his status is recorded as married.
                          https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....04/4509585.pdf
                          I wondered about the informant Bidelia McGowan and possible connection. I found her in the 1911 census - she was a hospital nurse.
                          As for Corcoran’s Mall - all inhabitants in 1911 are listed here http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...rcoran_s_Mall/
                          and you can click on the individual records if you want to see more.
                          My best guess would be that he was staying in house 1 which was a hotel and Bidelia was called upon to nurse him when he became ill there. Why was he in Sligo? Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps he was involved in some some sort of building / architectural work. If you click on the image for house 4 you will see that the head of household was a builder and his daughter was a designer. Probably no way of ever knowing for certain, unfortunately, unless there happens to be anything in the Sligo newspapers...

                          Christine

                          Last edited by Karamazov; 12-05-22, 18:30.
                          Researching:
                          HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Couldn’t find anything likely in the Sligo newspapers. However, what I can see from these 4 thumbnails in English newspapers, confirms my thought in post 13 that he died in house 1 on Corcoran’s Mall aka The imperial Hotel.
                            My current FMP sub doesn’t include newspapers but perhaps someone else can save the complete articles for you.
                            https://search.findmypast.co.uk/sear...9&o=date&d=asc

                            Christine
                            Researching:
                            HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                              If I’m reading this thread correctly, you are now fairly confident that Walter Andrew is Keith’s natural father?
                              So more info on Walter:
                              Here’s his death in Sligo, 31 March 1911 - frustratingly his death is just a few days ahead of the census which started 2 April - it would have been interesting to know who he was visiting. As in 1901 census, his status is recorded as married.
                              https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....04/4509585.pdf
                              I wondered about the informant Bidelia McGowan and possible connection. I found her in the 1911 census - she was a hospital nurse.
                              As for Corcoran’s Mall - all inhabitants in 1911 are listed here http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...rcoran_s_Mall/
                              and you can click on the individual records if you want to see more.
                              My best guess would be that he was staying in house 1 which was a hotel and Bidelia was called upon to nurse him when he became ill there. Why was he in Sligo? Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps he was involved in some some sort of building / architectural work. If you click on the image for house 4 you will see that the head of household was a builder and his daughter was a designer. Probably no way of ever knowing for certain, unfortunately, unless there happens to be anything in the Sligo newspapers...

                              Christine
                              There is a newspaper article that stated he was in Sligo on business, he caught a cold whilst traveling there and a doctor was called to the hotel but he never improved and he died of pneumonia. I am still not sure if Walter is Keith's natural father! there is certainly something strange about this, I still cannot find Keith's birth certificate looked under Smith too as his mother is shown as Alice Smith (1901 census). I have spent the afternoon trying to make sense of the details on the 1911 census return, Keith is now shown as Keith Walter Smith and is the nephew of the head of the household Roberta Owen and there is another person shown as Margaret Mary Owen and she is Roberta's niece. So far I have not found a link connecting them. Keith was baptised after Walters death and he states Walter is his father and although no mothers details are shown it does say mothers details are known, it seems the more information I find the more the plot thickens. Thank you for your help. I have also tried to find details of Alice but she was born in India.
                              Last edited by Gwen@coggiecorner; 12-05-22, 19:01.
                              GWEN

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I must admit I am not sure. Was he a philanthropist and was helping out his housekeeper's son and another servant Roberta? He decided to adopt the boy? Or was Keith his son by an affair with the servant? Or an affair with another of is own class and arranged for the servant to act as mother to prevent scandal? Why a baptism in Paddington? A lively imagination can raise all sorts of possibilities. Hopefully the Will might give some help.
                                Last edited by keldon; 12-05-22, 20:48.
                                Phil
                                historyhouse.co.uk
                                Essex - family and local history.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by keldon View Post
                                  I must admit I am not sure. Was he a philanthropist and was helping out his housekeeper's son and another servant Roberta? He decided to adopt the boy? Or was Keith his son by an affair with the servant? Or an affair with another of is own class and arranged for the servant to act as mother to prevent scandal? Why a baptism in Paddington? A lively imagination can raise all sorts of possibilities. Hopefully the Will might give some help.

                                  Yes, it’s a puzzler! Both Walter and Alice are recorded as married in 1901 - but she is not recorded as his wife, but as housekeeper. But I haven’t been able to find a likely looking marriage of a Walter Andrew to A N Other either in England/Wales or in Ireland. So were he and Alice living together as common-law man and wife? Also - he must have told Bidelia McGowan that he was married for her to state this to the registrar. So who was the “wife” as of 1911? Rebecca Owen? What’s happened to Alice between 1901 and 1911?
                                  Re Keith’s birth - doing a very loose search for births of Keiths, no surname, born in Middlesex between 1897 and 1899 doesn’t bring up that many results, but not a Smith, Andrew/s or Owen amongst them.
                                  Same search done for London, brings up
                                  Births Mar 1897
                                  Andrews Keith Edward Wandsworth 1d 724
                                  This would be in the right time frame for the DOB on his death reg mentioned by Lin in post 2.
                                  Circumstantial - 1911 baptism - where Keith takes on the middle name Walter and the surname Edward - does this indicate that there had been either some sort of acknowledge after Walters death, via his will, of Walter being Keith’s father or that he had to change his name as it a condition of inheritance. The more usual way to do this though would be via something official in the London Gazette rather than via a baptism. And as he was a minor at the time who was his guardian after Walter’s death who presumably played a part in getting the baptism organised? And it’s very odd that the baptising minister was seemingly prevailed upon not to record the mother’s details in the baptism register - never come across that before
                                  I’d be itching to get hold of Walter’s will in the hope that it would shed some light...

                                  Christine
                                  Researching:
                                  HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

                                    Yes, it’s a puzzler! Both Walter and Alice are recorded as married in 1901 - but she is not recorded as his wife, but as housekeeper. But I haven’t been able to find a likely looking marriage of a Walter Andrew to A N Other either in England/Wales or in Ireland.

                                    Christine
                                    I think it's this one at Bognor, Sussex in 1891 to Adele Susannah Lynam Melville nee Gisborne..
                                    https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...642&cat=833863

                                    I can't find her in the 1901 but she is in the 1911 as a widow in Gloucester.
                                    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...8924&ml_rpos=1



                                    Phil
                                    historyhouse.co.uk
                                    Essex - family and local history.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by keldon View Post

                                      I think it's this one at Bognor, Sussex in 1891 to Adele Susannah Lynam Melville nee Gisborne..
                                      https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...642&cat=833863

                                      I can't find her in the 1901 but she is in the 1911 as a widow in Gloucester.
                                      https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...8924&ml_rpos=1


                                      I think Keith was born out of wedlock and not sure if Walter was his father. Keith lived in Hendon and married in Hendon, the witness's on the MC certificate are William Albert Smith and Louisa Smith so I do think there is a connection to the Smith's but not sure how yet. I found Maud Smith (Servant 1901 census) on the 1881 census and she has a sister who is called Louisa due you think this is just a coincidence? Just looking on other census returns for the same family to find a William, I believe if that turns up trumps then may be this is Keith's mothers family. Still not be able to find Alice his mother after 1901!

                                      Do you really think getting the will, will it tell me much more than the beneficiaries .

                                      On the 1911 census return Keith is shown as the nephew of Roberta Owen who inherited the money from Walter as well as Keith.

                                      I don't think I have had such a mixed up tree. Thank you again for all your help and finding the marriage for Walter.
                                      GWEN

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Gwen@coggiecorner View Post


                                        Do you really think getting the will, will it tell me much more than the beneficiaries .
                                        .
                                        I’ve looked at the probate record again - I’m not quite sure what Administration (with will) means in terms of the documentation you would get - it seems to be a half-way house between admin (where someone dies without leaving a will) and full probate. Interesting too that it was granted to the Public Trustee, presumably because Keith was a minor.

                                        I think wills are still only £1.50 so I would go for it!

                                        Christine
                                        Researching:
                                        HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                                        Comment

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