Brick Wall Already

[Braidy]

Thrulines isn't very accurate....it needs you to have an accurate tree attached to your DNA results, and it needs your matches to attach accurate trees as well. There's plenty of matches you will have that won't have any trees or any recognisable names in their trees.

Thanks for that Kyle, I don't really understand how it works.

The gentleman kindly sent over Joseph Barner's birth cert. The DoB matches the one I have for Joseph Murray on the 1939 register, and his PoB on the on 1911 census says Yorkshire, Leeds when he's using the surname Perry. I wonder if it could be the same guy and I finally know who my great grandfather is?

[cbcarolyn]

it certainly seems an amazing coincidence that he has the same date of birth. And also that there appears to be no others around that could fit the bill.

I would keep digging away at the family, one day you might get something that will tie them together. I know I have found newspaper reports of funerals and it states all the family, might be one someday. Clement must be the key.

I don't know anything about DNA either.

[teasie]

The gentleman kindly sent over Joseph Barner's birth cert. The DoB matches the one I have for Joseph Murray on the 1939 register, and his PoB on the on 1911 census says Yorkshire, Leeds when he's using the surname Perry. I wonder if it could be the same guy and I finally know who my great grandfather is?

Don't forget though, that the 1921 (as Lewis) says born YORK, Yorkshire.

For what it's worth, I think there are too many things that tie in for it to be a coincidence. His mother married a MURRAY, he's recorded as Joseph MURRAY in two census in York, his DoB matches, and his former employment as a printers clerk isn't too far removed from the skills/knowledge needed for photography.

ADDED: Interesting too that he was born at Queen Street, All Saints, York - which is Joseph Murray Sr's address (his with parents & siblings) in 1871 - RG10/4746/76/22, so there's a good likelihood that although he was illegitimate, his biological father was nevertheless Joseph Murray Sr.

[teasie]

Joseph Sr's father was John Murray, Insurance Agent, who died 27 Jan 1888 at 14 Queen Street, Tanner Row, York (the same address as Joseph Barner/Murray's birth certificate, and also the baptisms of Clement & Cecilia).

He left a will with a personal estate of £200 8s 11d, which might be of interest. The executors were James Henry Kendall, city railway foreman, and William Cuss, city foreman joiner.

[cbcarolyn]

worth noting that one of the siblings Richard is down as born in Leeds, so family must have been there for a while, so could be confusing Joseph where he was born, he was only 2 years difference in age of Joseph.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/ERYRG10_4745_4747-0252?pId=9467121

[Braidy]

It definitely seems plausible that all these facts point to it being the right Joseph, I just wish there was someone in my family I could ask for information.

I guess I'll keep plugging away at the family, like you say and see where that takes me. He's so exhausting. 😂

[cbcarolyn]

It definitely seems plausible that all these facts point to it being the right Joseph, I just wish there was someone in my family I could ask for information.

I guess I'll keep plugging away at the family, like you say and see where that takes me. He's so exhausting. 😂

you can order the will that teasie mentioned for £1.50 https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/

[Braidy]

you can order the will that teasie mentioned for £1.50 https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/

Ah, I didn't know you could order things like that, I've just placed the order for it now.

[cbcarolyn]

They can be really useful, as they are so cheap it's worth going mad and ordering some you think you don't need.


Always look for childless couples as they may go wider over the family and will tie them all together

[Braidy]

They can be really useful, as they are so cheap it's worth going mad and ordering some you think you don't need.


Always look for childless couples as they may go wider over the family and will tie them all together

Thanks cbcarolyn

I just come across a workhouse record when looking for information on Llewellyn Jones - Jessie's father. It gives details of him and Jessie, as well as some of Jessie's children. I am having trouble understanding the dates in the "when born" column, I assume they can't be DoB's because they all say 12 as the bottom number. Google is telling me it would be DoB's but it would be impossible, does anyone have an idea what they could mean?

TIA.

[GallowayLass]

What you are seeing is how many years and months old they are. The months are expressed as a fraction of a full year which is why the bottom number of the fraction is always 12 eg. 5 6/12 is 5 years 6 months old.

[Braidy]

What you are seeing is how many years and months old they are. The months are expressed as a fraction of a full year which is why the bottom number of the fraction is always 12 eg. 5 6/12 is 5 years 6 months old.

Makes complete sense now you say it. 🤪

It threw me because the Llewellyn Jones on the document with Mother Mary are the names I have for Jessie's father and grandmother, because the age of Llewellyn and Joseph Llewellyn (Jessies child) are both aged 4 I assumed it couldn't be their ages. So possibly it's a just a coincidence that a Llewellyn with mother Mary who aren't related happens to be on the same document. Jeez, it doesn't take much to confuse me. 😂

[GallowayLass]

Don’t worry about it. We’ve all been there, I still sometimes can’t see the wood for the trees and I’ve been building my tree for 40 odd years!

[teasie]

It may be worthwhile going through the workhouse records for all of the children, I've just noticed that on one of the records I picked at random, it says that Wilfred was 5 months old in Feb 1910 and was the illegitimate son of Thomas Morgan, a collier: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...true&pId=44130

[cbcarolyn]

It may be worthwhile going through the workhouse records for all of the children, I've just noticed that on one of the records I picked at random, it says that Wilfred was 5 months old in Feb 1910 and was the illegitimate son of Thomas Morgan, a collier: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...true&pId=44130

good spot, I am sure there are some other snippets on there, as there are so many, and maybe a few mistranscribed and hiding.

A couple of the children also were on their own.

I would def go through every one and make a note of everything, there was a mention of an uncle on one.

[cbcarolyn]

I spotted Bertha Sheppard a while back, and dismissed her (my mothers name!) can't think where I saw first record, is this Beatrice maybe.


hilda sheppard.jpg

[teasie]

I also noticed there was one with a son named Charles aged about 18months old in November 1913 - possibly the John Charles mentioned early on in this thread?

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61852/images/61852_58021000642_0544-00197?usePUB=true&pId=630953