Brick Wall Already

[cbcarolyn]

I am sure I saw something over there and dismissed it as too far away. Might have been papers, will have to have another look, lucky she used all the other names more than Jones for us!

[teasie]

Jessie LEWIS.JPG
Western Mail 26 March 1920

Interesting! They were using the Lewis surname in 1921, and this says that William Murray is Jessie's son but not Joseph's, so he probably was a Sheppard after all. EDIT But if so, why register is birth as MURRAY???

[teasie]

I’m reading this that Jessie was with Reuben Sheppard and had children with him, then took up with Joseph Murray around the time she was pregnant with William. Violet seems to be the last child registered as Sheppard (1902), with William being the first Murray (1904), but described in the paper as a son of Jessie’s from a previous marriage. So it could be the case of false information on his birth certificate (I have a bunch of those from my own GG Grandmother). Not sure you'll ever really know other than by DNA.

A Reuben Shepherd married one of two women in Newport RD in 1905 (probably Isabella Belinda Taylor, as a Violet May Shephard was born in Pontypridd RD in 1906, mmn Taylor), and a Reuben Shephard died in Pontypridd RD in 1907. Both are in Jessie’s ‘stomping ground’ so seem likely to be him, although there was another man with the same name (but spelled Sheppard) in Cardiff.

So I guess the big question is whether Joseph was Ruby’s biological father or not? It would be interesting to see what the birth certificate for ‘Ruby Sheppard’ says about her father!

[cbcarolyn]

I’m reading this that Jessie was with Reuben Sheppard and had children with him, then took up with Joseph Murray around the time she was pregnant with William. Violet seems to be the last child registered as Sheppard (1902), with William being the first Murray (1904), but described in the paper as a son of Jessie’s from a previous marriage. So it could be the case of false information on his birth certificate (I have a bunch of those from my own GG Grandmother). Not sure you'll ever really know other than by DNA.

A Reuben Shepherd married one of two women in Newport RD in 1905 (probably Isabella Belinda Taylor, as a Violet May Shephard was born in Pontypridd RD in 1906, mmn Taylor), and a Reuben Shephard died in Pontypridd RD in 1907. Both are in Jessie’s ‘stomping ground’ so seem likely to be him, although there was another man with the same name (but spelled Sheppard) in Cardiff.

So I guess the big question is whether Joseph was Ruby’s biological father or not? It would be interesting to see what the birth certificate for ‘Ruby Sheppard’ says about her father!

Except she is swapping about names in the workhouse :(

teasie - good find, I think there was another Cwmbran article, maybe Reuben. will look

Has anyone tried to trace Joseph? I was hoping that there would be one with mmn Lewis! not found one. The only pob to go on is the 'Perry' 1911 census, I assume nothing on 1921 other than Yorkshire?

[teasie]

I'm not too bothered about her swapping names in the workhouse to be honest. She was known as Sheppard/Shephard (even though she never married Reuben), and Joseph doesn't seem to have been a permanent fixture in the early days. As for the later entries as Sheppard, perhaps it was sometimes easier to be 'widow Sheppard' after Reuben died, especially if Joseph had taken off again.

I don't think that 1 Jan 1905 discharge is right by the way its 1 Jan 1906 (having been admitted 20 November 1905) & then Beatrice, Hilda & William were readmitted the next day per the newspaper article about her 'deserting' them.

Its a wild stab & probably wrong, but I wonder if this is Beatrice also recorded as Lewis in 1921, at Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Newport (from the free index only):
Beatrice Lewis b 1899 Cwmbran, Monmouthshire

The age is out, but could she also be the Beatrice Sheppard aged 14 b Abertillery in the 1911 census at The Asylum For Girls, Keyford Frome, Frome, Somerset ??

Not sure what happened to Hilda though.

ADDED: 1921 for Joseph says Yorkshire, Yorkshire then someone has changed it to Yorkshire, York

[cbcarolyn]

I'm not too bothered about her swapping names in the workhouse to be honest. She was known as Sheppard/Shephard (even though she never married Reuben), and Joseph doesn't seem to have been a permanent fixture in the early days. As for the later entries as Sheppard, perhaps it was sometimes easier to be 'widow Sheppard' after Reuben died, especially if Joseph had taken off again.

I don't think that 1 Jan 1905 discharge is right by the way its 1 Jan 1906 (having been admitted 20 November 1905) & then Beatrice, Hilda & William were readmitted the next day per the newspaper article about her 'deserting' them.

Its a wild stab & probably wrong, but I wonder if this is Beatrice also recorded as Lewis in 1921, at Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Newport (from the free index only):
Beatrice Lewis b 1899 Cwmbran, Monmouthshire

The age is out, but could she also be the Beatrice Sheppard aged 14 b Abertillery in the 1911 census at The Asylum For Girls, Keyford Frome, Frome, Somerset ??

Not sure what happened to Hilda though.

ADDED: 1921 for Joseph says Yorkshire, Yorkshire then someone has changed it to Yorkshire, York

Yes I have Jan 1906, where is it 1905. the children are transferred as here the next day, not in my table as only did Jessie:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61852/images/61852_58021000642_0539-00101?treeid=171416310&personid=162376442138&usePUB=true&_phsrc=nHA866&_phstart=successSource&pId=609997

another here for just Hilda and Beatrice says to cottage Homes? 1 Mar 1910

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61852/images/61852_62021000437_1863-00089?treeid=171416310&personid=162376442138&usePUB=true&_phsrc=nHA870&_phstart=successSource&pId=747333

forgot to say this one includes name of uncle John Jones at 123 Stay Road? Abertridw??

[teasie]

Yes I have Jan 1906, where is it 1905.

3rd entry on the table at post #55 shows a discharge on 1 Jan 1905, then further down you have the correct date of 1 Jan 1906.

[cbcarolyn]

Hilda and Beatrice could have remained in the cottage homes maybe. http://www.formerchildrenshomes.org....age_homes.html

no idea of these records are around

[cbcarolyn]

Jessie LEWIS.JPG
Western Mail 26 March 1920

Interesting! They were using the Lewis surname in 1921, and this says that William Murray is Jessie's son but not Joseph's, so he probably was a Sheppard after all. EDIT But if so, why register is birth as MURRAY???

if he was going under the name of Lewis and son is in home with Murray, he could just be saying he is not his as he doesn't want anyone to know his name is Murray. You would think living in valleys that everyone would know everyone!

[Braidy]

I finally have a day off so I'm hoping to put some hours in today, my living room currently looks like a police board when they're trying to piece together a time line.

Would you say the Sheppard/Lewis/Perry names and matching children are too coincidental not to be the same Jessie and Jospeph?

Joseph Llewellyn's marriage cert came today. It lists Joseph Murray as photographer again. Clarence Road, Wood Green. District of Edmonton.

[cbcarolyn]

To me it all fits together, although no idea why the name change, apart from getting more from the workhouse. Perry and Lewis seems odd.

Guess it's worth getting the other birth certs if funds allow.

Did you get the 1921 census? I don't think that will help.

[Braidy]

To me it all fits together, although no idea why the name change, apart from getting more from the workhouse. Perry and Lewis seems odd.

Guess it's worth getting the other birth certs if funds allow.

Did you get the 1921 census? I don't think that will help.

I got the 1921 census, hopefully it will be legible.

I'm waiting on Ruby's birth cert, will have a look at some others this evening.

[Katarzyna]

Do you have their address? If not, go back to fmp >>>> my accounts>>>saved searches>>>view image>>>at the bottom - open film strip>>there are several images including one of their address.

[Braidy]

Do you have their address? If not, go back to fmp >>>> my accounts>>>saved searches>>>view image>>>at the bottom - open film strip>>there are several images including one of their address.

It's 12 West View, Cwmbran.

[Braidy]

Jessie LEWIS.JPG
Western Mail 26 March 1920

Interesting! They were using the Lewis surname in 1921, and this says that William Murray is Jessie's son but not Joseph's, so he probably was a Sheppard after all. EDIT But if so, why register is birth as MURRAY???

I just found this in the Merthyr Express dated Nov 28th 1925.

Details Joseph Murray but also mentions William Murray refering to Joseph as his step father. So it reaffirms he had to be a Shephard.

[teasie]

I had to smile at the bit where he ways that Joseph was ' a difficult man to trace'....... he's not wrong there!

Interesting that he's selling goods door-to-door and was described as a traveller, not a photographer.

[cbcarolyn]

ooh good find, looks like the papers have all sorts buried, so hard finding stuff, but rewarding when you get a result. another address for your timeline! does look like he is keeping in touch with his family though, even if it is dodgy deals! I see in the 1921 census the boys were out of work. times were tough for them.

[Lin Fisher]

What a great story you will have to add to your family tree.

Really enjoyed reading all the bit that everyone has found for you.

Well done everyone.

[Braidy]

What a great story you will have to add to your family tree.

Really enjoyed reading all the bit that everyone has found for you.

Well done everyone.

I am in awe at the things people have managed to unearth, nothing I was doing was bringing up anything on Jessie and Joseph, that coupled with not being able to find Ruby's birth cert I was at a dead end. I am so thankful to those who were able to point me in the right direction.

I'm still waiting on Ruby's birth cert and Reubens death cert. I have the headache of trying to find Joseph's birth cert, given the name changes and elusive nature of him, he'll prove tricky I bet.

Thanks once again all.

[Braidy]

That 1907 death cert will need ordered, at least it’ll only be pdf price 👍 If it turns out to be the correct Reuben, then Joseph Murray could well be the natural father of the last two (or maybe three?) of Jessie’s children.

Reuben's death cert just fell into my inbox. Was hoping it would say Jessie had registered his death, but no. Back to the drawing board. 🤔