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  • #21
    If you want to search using Ancestry then you need to change all the females to their maiden names. It is protocol.

    ie Ruby should be listed as Ruby Murray not Ruby Jones and Jessie listed as Jessie Jones not Jessie Murray and Victoria listed as Victoria Morgan not Victoria Jones etc etc. That's assuming what you have found is correct.
    You will find you will get much better results this way.
    Kat

    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

    Comment


    • #22
      Here's another article on the same incident and it mentions a Jessie Murray.


      Phil
      historyhouse.co.uk
      Essex - family and local history.

      Comment


      • #23
        MURRAY, WILFRED mmn JONES
        GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 312
        DEATH.
        Name: Violet Mary Murray
        Age: 2
        Estimated Birth Year: abt 1902
        Death Registration Place: Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, United Kingdom
        Death Date: Sep 1904
        Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
        Volume: 11a
        Page: 276
        Kat

        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

        Comment


        • #24
          MURRAY, JOSEPH LLEWELLYN mmn JONES
          GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 218

          If you cannot find the ref for Ruby and/or her sisters it might be worth buying the marriage cert and the birth certs of one or more of her brothers to see where the parents were living at the time and occupations.
          Cannot find a marriage for Ruby or Jessie anywhere. Might have time to look again tonight.


          Birth
          Joseph I Murray
          Registration date July 1935
          Registration district Hackney
          Mother's Maiden Name Stokes
          Volume Number 1b
          Page number 523


          Marriages Sep 1934
          Stokes Edith M J / Murray Edmonton 3a 2674
          Murray Joseph L / Stokes Edmonton 3a 2674
          Last edited by Katarzyna; 10-05-22, 17:52.
          Kat

          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
            just looking in the welsh newspapers, I think this must be Joseph a travelling photographer:

            https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...35/4144637/61/

            they lost a child :( violet mary murray - although I can only find 2 registrations with that name neither have Jones as MMN

            I guess he went travelling and left Jessie with the children to fend for themselves for weeks at a time.
            That's awfully sad, thank you for sharing this with me.

            I do have Ruby's marriage certificate. For future reference, is there a site I can use to check the addresses of people who lived there at the time?

            I appreciate everyone's help, I just haven't known how to get past Ruby and being new to this it's nice to have some pointers.
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            • #26
              Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
              MURRAY, JOSEPH LLEWELLYN mmn JONES
              GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 218

              If you cannot find the ref for Ruby and/or her sisters it might be worth buying the marriage cert and the birth certs of one or more of her brothers to see where the parents were living at the time and occupations.
              Cannot find a marriage for Ruby or Jessie anywhere. Might have time to look again tonight.


              Birth
              Joseph I Murray
              Registration date July 1935
              Registration district Hackney
              Mother's Maiden Name Stokes
              Volume Number 1b
              Page number 523


              Marriages Sep 1934
              Stokes Edith M J / Murray Edmonton 3a 2674
              Murray Joseph L / Stokes Edmonton 3a 2674
              Thanks for the tip about the maiden names and also these details, I'll change those over the next day or two. I'll also purchase Ruby's brother Joseph Llewellyn and sister Beatties birt certs.

              Also, thanks Phil for the other link of the article.
              Last edited by Braidy; 10-05-22, 19:03.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Braidy View Post

                That's awfully sad, thank you for sharing this with me.

                I do have Ruby's marriage certificate. For future reference, is there a site I can use to check the addresses of people who lived there at the time?

                I appreciate everyone's help, I just haven't known how to get past Ruby and being new to this it's nice to have some pointers.
                like you said originally it's not as easy to find more recent records. There are reg of electors and phone books on Ancestry (and some on FMP) and you can try using the keyword box for the address in certain places.

                I can't make out what she has put for Josephs occupation on the last line.

                If you search through the welsh newspapers - there were several more with the story could be worth looking through.
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post

                  like you said originally it's not as easy to find more recent records. There are reg of electors and phone books on Ancestry (and some on FMP) and you can try using the keyword box for the address in certain places.

                  I can't make out what she has put for Josephs occupation on the last line.

                  If you search through the welsh newspapers - there were several more with the story could be worth looking through.
                  I make it out to be "commerical traveller drapery".

                  Thank you to everyone for their help and suggestions, hopefully they will lead me to get past this wall.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Braidy View Post

                    I make it out to be "commerical traveller drapery".

                    Thank you to everyone for their help and suggestions, hopefully they will lead me to get past this wall.
                    that's odd with photography in 1939 and also in 1904 with drapery in between.
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Just doing some free searches on the 1921 index, I think they are recorded as LEWIS and living in Llanvihangel, Llantarnam, Newport, Monmouthshire:

                      Joseph Lewis b 1876, Yorkshire
                      Jessie Lewis b 1879 Glamorganshire
                      William Lewis b 1904 Abertillery, Monmouthshire
                      Joseph Llewelyn Lewis b 1905, Caerleon, Monmouthshire, Wales
                      Wilfred Lewis b 1909 Bargoed, Glamorganshire, Wales
                      Ruby Lewis b 1914 Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        That looks good Teasie. Wonder if it is a transcription error or they have something to hide!!
                        Lin

                        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          In 1911 I think they are using the surname PERRY

                          7 Tycoch Terrace Cwmbran Newport Monmounthshire RG14, Piece 3207, Schedule 111

                          Joseph PERRY 34 Coal Miner b Leeds, Yorkshire
                          Jessie 35 wife b Ystrad, Glamorgan
                          William 7 b Llanbradach
                          Joseph 5 b Llanbradach
                          Wilfred 1 b Llanbradach

                          Joseph was a coal miner on Wilfred's birth certificate. Odd that he's shown as aged 1 on the census though??


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                          • #33
                            I wonder if he's the Joseph Murray aged 24 living at Courtney Street, Leeds in 1901? Married to Harriet & with daughters Sarah J & Elsie?

                            I'm not readily finding the family together after that. If its the same man, he seems to have been shunted around relatives as a child.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by teasie View Post
                              Just doing some free searches on the 1921 index, I think they are recorded as LEWIS and living in Llanvihangel, Llantarnam, Newport, Monmouthshire:

                              Joseph Lewis b 1876, Yorkshire
                              Jessie Lewis b 1879 Glamorganshire
                              William Lewis b 1904 Abertillery, Monmouthshire
                              Joseph Llewelyn Lewis b 1905, Caerleon, Monmouthshire, Wales
                              Wilfred Lewis b 1909 Bargoed, Glamorganshire, Wales
                              Ruby Lewis b 1914 Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
                              I've just a quick look at this, the names and dates fit with what I have (apart from Wilf's DOB which I have as 1911), and the 1921 index seems to enforce this. The surname might be the reason I haven't been able to find Joseph at all. I feel like this could be a breakthrough. Thank you so much.

                              I ordered Joseph Llewelyn's marriage and birth certs yesterday, so I'll be able to see if there are any clues on those.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by teasie View Post
                                I wonder if he's the Joseph Murray aged 24 living at Courtney Street, Leeds in 1901? Married to Harriet & with daughters Sarah J & Elsie?

                                I'm not readily finding the family together after that. If its the same man, he seems to have been shunted around relatives as a child.
                                Or maybe not. Harriet died in 1909 aged 32, and a Joseph Murray is buried in the same grave in 1933, aged 56.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  wow that's a good couple of finds. the 1921 census might be worth getting to see what his occupation is, I am not finding that much of use in 1921, other than to collect the 'set'
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                    wow that's a good couple of finds. the 1921 census might be worth getting to see what his occupation is, I am not finding that much of use in 1921, other than to collect the 'set'
                                    His occupation in 1921 is photographer. I'm going to have a proper dig over the next few days.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Just to add even more confusion - we know from 1911 census they were using the surname Perry. Could they have been using another surname when daughter Ruby born?? A Ruby Sheppard birth June quarter 1914 Pontypridd has mmn Jones!! I can't see any further trace of her in the records with surname Sheppard. Just a thought.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Looks like Hilda (post #12) is one of their children - Jessie plus children Beatrice, Hilda, William, Joseph & Wilfred all admitted to the Merthyr workhouse in 1909.

                                        So we're back to the puzzle of how Wilfred's birth wasn't registered until 1911, and with a 1911 DoB?

                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...true&pId=17898

                                        I also spotted this, as SHEPHERD - which fits with what I'd already suspected might be Ruby's birth:

                                        Jessie Shepherd 37 widow of Reuben Shepherd, Collier
                                        Joseph Llewelyn Shepherd 7
                                        Wilfred Shepherd 3
                                        Ruby Shepherd - 1 day - Born in the house. Mother Jessie Shepherd

                                        The admission date for Jessie, Joseph & Wilfred was 9 April 1914, but for Jessie it was - 21 April 1914, which if you minus the age of 1-day written against her name, matches her DoB on the 1939 register

                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...rue&pId=404119

                                        SHEPPARD, RUBY mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1914 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 1320

                                        ADDED:
                                        Ruby's birth on the Pontypridd workhouse register of births - 20 April 1914



                                        Last edited by teasie; 13-05-22, 02:41.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          And just to really throw the cat amongst the pigeons:

                                          1901 - 7 Arcaida Terrace, Cwmbran, Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Newport
                                          Ruben Shephard 25 Coal Miner Underground b Cwmbran, Monmouthshire
                                          Jessie Shephard 23 wife
                                          Beatrice Shephard 2 daur
                                          Ethel Shephard 6m

                                          Ethel seems to be Hilda, but I'm not seeing Beatrice, or a marriage for Reuben & Jessie
                                          SHEPPARD, HILDA mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 252

                                          Reuben seems to have died in 1907, Pontypridd

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