Clement went on to have family, hopefully might get a DNA match to him somehow and then you will know. he was in a similar area to them at one time, he stayed put had family etc all there as far as I can see.
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Did he tell you where he got the DoB from? Does he have the actual birth certificate for Joseph Barner? If not, then I think its a must.
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Originally posted by cbcarolyn View PostIf it is right, I can see the tree has Clement Murray as a sibling. Which seems to tie in, he lives with a maiden Aunt (Barner)
Interestingly he is then in Wales also. Colliery worker but in Pontypridd area.
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Originally posted by teasie View Post
Wasn't Jessie in that area in 1904 when her daughter Violet was run over? It seems to be around the time that she & Joseph got together, with Violet registered as Sheppard (1902), and William being the first child registered as Murray (1904).
Clement 1911 is at 38 Royal Cottages, Maerdy which is in the district of Pontypridd
be lovely if we could find Clement in 1904!
there is a private Clement Murray mentioned in the papers, but can't find a military record atmLast edited by cbcarolyn; 31-05-22, 16:26.Carolyn
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Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
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Originally posted by GallowayLass View PostI can see Clement on 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses plus 1939 register.
He married Cora M MORGANS in 1911 Pontypridd and died there 1951.
His mother’s ms was BARNERMURRAY, CLEMENT BARNER GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in YORK Volume 09D Page 16
I assume the mother died when Clement young and he was with his aunts and sister Agnes. I did find a death of Agnes.Last edited by cbcarolyn; 31-05-22, 19:09.Carolyn
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Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by GallowayLass View PostCould these be his parents? It’s the only marriage in Yorkshire 1881 +/- 10 years with a female BARNER to a male MURRAY. Her husband’s forename is Joseph!
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Originally posted by teasie View Post
Yes, this is how we got to Joseph Barner in the first place - see my posts #92 & #93. The Ancestry tree with Joseph Barner on it gives a DoB that matches the 1939 for Joseph Murray, so we're waiting to find out if the tree owner has his birth certificate confirming this date.
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I think these 2 baptisms are Jane Barners older siblings and they are catholic william and Anna
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2972/?name=_b*rn*&birth=_york-yorkshire-england-united+kingdom_89395&count=50&father=gu*
so Janes family could also be catholic. I am reading Hilma as same as Hilda? interesting if so to see name in family.
Might not be right , as can't read image that wellLast edited by cbcarolyn; 01-06-22, 17:44.Carolyn
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Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by Braidy View PostStill waiting on the guy to get back me regarding the birth of Joseph, I hope it's soon. 😂
Would you recommend ordering the Joseph Barner birth cert anyway?Carolyn
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Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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The gentleman has Joseph Barner's birth cert so I've asked him if he would mind sharing it with me.
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it could mean that there has been no one DNA tested I guess, it doesn't look like they are a huge family, many died young/had no children
fingers crossed he comes back with the cert.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Postit could mean that there has been no one DNA tested I guess, it doesn't look like they are a huge family, many died young/had no children
fingers crossed he comes back with the cert.
The gentleman is going to send his cert over today. 🤞
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Re the DNA, there's always the possibility that Joseph Barner & Joseph Murray are the same person, but not necessarily Ruby's biological father, so I think you need both the birth certificate and a DNA comparison. I'm no expert on DNA, but I would think you could also test against a descendant of one of Jessie & Joseph's known biologial children to work out whether Ruby was a full or half sibling.
Ruby was born 20 Apr 1914, so assuming she was full-term would have been conceived around Aug 1913. Jessie's closest workhouse admission was November 1913 as the wife of Joseph Murray, whose address was unknown. His address still wasn't known in Feb 1914.
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I have been looking at the Barner family, I think this is Elizabeth who was the aunt looking after Clement, and is in a Catholic home.
Is the family catholic?
Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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