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  • #41
    Originally posted by teasie View Post
    And just to really throw the cat amongst the pigeons:

    1901 - 7 Arcaida Terrace, Cwmbran, Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Newport
    Ruben Shephard 25 Coal Miner Underground b Cwmbran, Monmouthshire
    Jessie Shephard 23 wife
    Beatrice Shephard 2 daur
    Ethel Shephard 6m

    Ethel seems to be Hilda, but I'm not seeing Beatrice, or a marriage for Reuben & Jessie
    SHEPPARD, HILDA mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 252

    Reuben seems to have died in 1907, Pontypridd
    OH GOSH!! I never imagined them to be so complicated yet fascinating at the same time. I wonder why all the name changes? I would be right in assuming that it's too coincidental for all these entries not to be the same family right?

    I'd felt so deflated having not been able to unearth anything on Ruby, Jessie and Joseph for the last few months, I honestly feel so thankful that you've all been able to seek out this information for me.

    I had a feeling Ruby had been born in the workhouse from the document I'd found early on but could never prove it, I didn't imagine all the name changes and it explains a "Ruby Murray" not being on the GRO.

    Comment


    • #42
      What a great story for you to write about and pass down to your family though. You could call it "No Hiding Place".
      Kat

      Comment


      • #43
        wow so Joseph disappeared and came back again - ooh good stuff.
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


        • #44
          although in 19o4 she is in the paper using Jessie Murray
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


          • #45
            maybe a newspaper article to add to the mix, there are a few more but none name the children

            https://newspapers.library.wales/vie...94/4159496/19/

            4th January 1906

            Screenshot 2022-05-13 190529.jpg
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


            • #46
              there are several in Sept 1906 featuring
              " Reuben. Shepherd, collier, Coedpenmaen, was summoned at Pontypridd Police-court today for riding a bicycle "

              and also one for
              "BROTHERS QUARREL.—Edwin and Reuben Shepherd, brothers, were each fined 5s. 6 i. and costs for riotous behaviour at Cwmbran " in 1900

              Coedpenmaen maybe too far from Cwmbran?

              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


              • #47
                Not sure if this has been said, but her sister was Alice Shepard, and one of the registers has her as nok I think her husband was John

                https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                • #48
                  did she keep changing her name back and forth - one for one workhouse and one for another? it must be her as she has all the same children! pontypridd and merthyr Tydfil how intriguing
                  Carolyn
                  Family Tree site

                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    It also is odd that in earlier workhouse registers she shown as the widow of Reuben but on the one showing Ruby’s birth, she is not a widow and Ruby is not marked as illegitimate as are some other people’s children. Perhaps Reuben did not die in 1906? or if he did, then Jessie has managed to get away with registering the births of two children as legitimate (1911 and 1914).
                    The October 1909 one has Jessie as the wife of Joseph and she and all the listed children are Murray.
                    Jessie appears to be a cute cookie
                    Last edited by GallowayLass; 14-05-22, 14:57.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                      Not sure if this has been said, but her sister was Alice Shepard, and one of the registers has her as nok I think her husband was John

                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource
                      Good spot! In 1891 she is at New Town, Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Newport, Monmouthshire, and has a 21-year-old Elizabeth JONES listed as a visitor.

                      From the birth of one of her children, Alice's maiden name was JONES: SHEPPARD, LLEWELLYN mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 221

                      https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...jUyNTQ1Njk2LjA.

                      John & Reuben Sheppard were brothers, so was Reuben really the father or just a convenient name to use? Looks like he died in 1907.
                      https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...jUyNTQ2Mjc4LjA.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        That 1907 death cert will need ordered, at least it’ll only be pdf price 👍 If it turns out to be the correct Reuben, then Joseph Murray could well be the natural father of the last two (or maybe three?) of Jessie’s children.
                        Last edited by GallowayLass; 14-05-22, 17:00.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Just going back to the 1906 newspaper report.

                          Its not on Welsh Newspapers Online (unless I've missed it), but the Bargoed Journal of 11 Jan 1906 has a longer article, which says that Jessie was found by the police in the bar of the Park Hotel at 10:11pm on 1st January. She was in the company of a man, who was holding the baby (presumably Joseph Llewelyn), and was drunk and unable to take care of herself. They took her to the police station, where she sat in front of the fire, vomiting, until 2 o clock. The cell was warmed and she was then put inside with her children.

                          Jessie claimed she had left the children in the Park Hotel with a man she didn't know while she went to the Post Office, and when she got back they were gone. The children were found on the steps of the Post Office at 8.15pm, freezing cold, and when the magistrate asked how the baby aged 1yr 9m could have got there (presumably William), Jessie said the eldest child (aged 7, so presumably Beatrice) could carry him.

                          The children were taken to the workhouse, which Jessie had only left that morning, having been in & out of it for about a year. The charge of drunkenness was dismissed but she got one month for deserting her children.
                          Last edited by teasie; 15-05-22, 04:42.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            I have romanticized Jessie, Joseph and Ruby so much since starting my ancestry, I wasn't expecting to turn up anything like this. It sounds like they all had quite a traumatic time.

                            I will order Reubens birth certificate and see what that has to say. I'm away now until Wednesday, which I'm gutted about because I feel I could finally start piecing together some of this. Thank you so much for your help guys.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              has anyone gone through all of the registers under both her names? I did start looking and she seemed to be here there and everywhere, it needs to be in order.

                              I did get as far as a workhouse record for Alice
                              https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...0371?pId=24350

                              and census with husband John for a bit of completeness,
                              https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...4?pId=32049820

                              the 1881 census I think Braidy had in tree
                              Last edited by cbcarolyn; 14-05-22, 23:38.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Just downloaded the search results on ancestry, I am sure there are more if search harder, but this is what it looks like for Jessie, Shepherd is at Pontypridd and Murray and Merthyr Tydfil. The records are for clothes, children, and general admission


                                One set of records said (1909 I think)
                                living at 21 North Street, Bargoed
                                William Murray born Commercial st Ystrad
                                Hilda Born Maesycwm????
                                Joseph born North St

                                1904 in the papers using Murray...between 2 Shepherd admissions!

                                wondering if Shepherd is a fake husband as suggested, sort of Benefit fraud of the day
                                Jessie Shepherd Admission 05-May-02 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Discharge 24-May-02 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Admission 17-Jan-05 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Discharge 30-Jan-05 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Admission 20-Nov-05 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Discharge 01-Jan-06 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Murray Admission 04-Oct-09 Glamorgan Joseph
                                Jessie Murray Admission 04-Oct-09 Glamorgan Joseph
                                Jessie Murray Discharge 02-Nov-09 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Murray Discharge 02-Nov-09 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Murray Discharge 02-Nov-09 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Admission 14-Feb-10 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Discharge 26-Mar-10 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Discharge 26-Mar-10 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Murray Admission 11-Nov-13 Glamorgan Joseph
                                Jessie Murray Discharge 29-Nov-13 Glamorgan Joseph
                                Jessie Murray Discharge 29-Nov-13 Glamorgan Jos.
                                Jessie Murray Admission 17-Feb-14 Glamorgan Joseph
                                Jessie Murray Discharge 05-Mar-14 Glamorgan Joseph
                                Jessie Murray Discharge 05-Mar-14 Glamorgan Joseph
                                Jessie Shepherd Admission 09-Apr-14 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Discharge 14-May-14 Glamorgan
                                Jessie Shepherd Discharge 14-May-14 Glamorgan
                                Last edited by cbcarolyn; 23-05-22, 18:02.
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by teasie View Post
                                  Just doing some free searches on the 1921 index, I think they are recorded as LEWIS and living in Llanvihangel, Llantarnam, Newport, Monmouthshire:

                                  Joseph Lewis b 1876, Yorkshire
                                  Jessie Lewis b 1879 Glamorganshire
                                  William Lewis b 1904 Abertillery, Monmouthshire
                                  Joseph Llewelyn Lewis b 1905, Caerleon, Monmouthshire, Wales
                                  Wilfred Lewis b 1909 Bargoed, Glamorganshire, Wales
                                  Ruby Lewis b 1914 Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
                                  Originally posted by teasie View Post
                                  In 1911 I think they are using the surname PERRY

                                  7 Tycoch Terrace Cwmbran Newport Monmounthshire RG14, Piece 3207, Schedule 111

                                  Joseph PERRY 34 Coal Miner b Leeds, Yorkshire
                                  Jessie 35 wife b Ystrad, Glamorgan
                                  William 7 b Llanbradach
                                  Joseph 5 b Llanbradach
                                  Wilfred 1 b Llanbradach

                                  Joseph was a coal miner on Wilfred's birth certificate. Odd that he's shown as aged 1 on the census though??

                                  Originally posted by annette.humphreys View Post
                                  Just to add even more confusion - we know from 1911 census they were using the surname Perry. Could they have been using another surname when daughter Ruby born?? A Ruby Sheppard birth June quarter 1914 Pontypridd has mmn Jones!! I can't see any further trace of her in the records with surname Sheppard. Just a thought.
                                  Originally posted by teasie View Post
                                  And just to really throw the cat amongst the pigeons:

                                  1901 - 7 Arcaida Terrace, Cwmbran, Llanvihangel Llantarnam, Newport
                                  Ruben Shephard 25 Coal Miner Underground b Cwmbran, Monmouthshire
                                  Jessie Shephard 23 wife
                                  Beatrice Shephard 2 daur
                                  Ethel Shephard 6m

                                  Ethel seems to be Hilda, but I'm not seeing Beatrice, or a marriage for Reuben & Jessie
                                  SHEPPARD, HILDA mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 252

                                  Reuben seems to have died in 1907, Pontypridd
                                  So Joseph has been a coal miner, a photograper and a draper, and has used Lewis and Perry.

                                  I didn't find any Lewis or Perry on Workhouse - but didn't search that hard.

                                  I did also spot on one of the workhouse records Joseph Lewelyn was discharged early to somewhere else.

                                  Beatrice, Hilda Violet and William no birth found yet?

                                  Joseph and John under Murray and Ruby under Sheppard
                                  Last edited by cbcarolyn; 15-05-22, 12:47.
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Came back from holiday to find Joseph Llewellyn's birth cert had been delivered. I've attached a photo.

                                    In case it isn't legible it has Joseph Murray listed as father as a photographer journeyman. Jospeph Llewellyn born on 15.08.1905.

                                    According to the workhouse records Carolyn has downloaded Jessie was admitted to the workhouse three months later on 20.11.1905 with no husband listed.

                                    I'm awaiting Joseph Llewellyns marriage cert which might give more details of Joseph Murray?

                                    Hope everyone is well.
                                    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                                    This gallery has 1 photos.

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                                    • #58
                                      and another address Caerleon, Newport long way from Pontypridd.

                                      guess it was a simple train journey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontyp...ewport_Railway
                                      Last edited by cbcarolyn; 19-05-22, 19:03.
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post

                                        Beatrice, Hilda Violet and William no birth found yet?

                                        Joseph and John under Murray and Ruby under Sheppard
                                        Since the 1921 has the correct PoB for Joseph Llewellyn (Caerleon), then William's may well be correct too. Abertillery was in the Bedwelty RD, so this is likely it:

                                        MURRAY, WILLIAM mmn JONES GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 89

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                                        • #60
                                          I can't find this on the GRO, but possibly Violet?

                                          Births Dec 1902 SHEPPARD Violet May Newport, M. v11a p286

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