James Emerson is confusing me!

[Gardengirl]

Would anyone be willing to check my thinking for me on this man? I have found some information but for some reason that I can't explain, I'm not feeling 100% sure that he's the right man. Just a niggle as if I might have overlooked something. There are actually three James Emersons in successive generations as you will see.

So working backwards...

My great grandmother was Lydia Louisa EMERSON b 1864 St Pancras. I have her birth cert which gives her parents as James EMERSON- shoemaker and Louisa nee ROBERTS. Her siblings were Emily b 1865 in Northampton and James baptized (as James Eccles EMERSON) 1868 in St James, Picadilly but died age 7 mnths. Both confirm parents' names as James and Louisa.

I have never bought the marriage cert for James and Louisa but have put it on my tree as Bef 1864.

James and Louisa are consistently together in 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 - he as a bootmaker born in Kendal, Westmoreland, she as a tailoress. The appearance of the daughters Emily and Lydia confirm that I have the correct family.

1871 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...36?pId=1743583 1881 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...2?pId=13653277
1891 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...27?pId=8764890
1901 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...682?pId=678948


Looking to go back a further generation, I have James in 1861 at home with his parents James and Mary. His father (James snr) is described as Sergt of Militia and Chelsea pensioner born in Fermanagh Ireland c 1807.

1861 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...7?pId=23535325

The recent Occupations thread about soldiers made me revisit this family and I have found what I believe are his army discharge papers but I wanted to go back over my old research to make sure I had the right man. To me, James Emerson seems a fairly common name but it doesn't appear often in the records.

So, first I went back to basics to check the marriage of James jnr EMERSON and Louisa ROBERTS but could only to find a marriage in 1876 - more than a decade after I expected to find it. This seems very unusual in those days to have three children before getting married and also to put the mother's name on the birth certificates as Louisa formerly Roberts implies that they were married. I wondered if 'formerly' instead of 'nee' means that she had been married previously and Roberts was not her maiden name.

At this point I am getting very confused and can't decide where I should be looking next.

Any thoughts please?

[Lin Fisher]

Not looked for anything yet but I have my 2 x G Grandparents marrying after their first 2 children had married as Eliza had been married before and the husband was still alive. I think formally is another name for nee.

Just thought if she had been married before her, she could have married as another name, her 1st husbands name not her maiden name. Is Roberts name from GRO records.

[Lin Fisher]

Looked at the parish entry for the marriage and only a transcript on FMP but said Louisa's father was Robert. She is there in Northampton with Robert on the earlier census. She is only 17 on the 1861 census so perhaps her father refused to sign for her to marry.

Looks like the right family though. I have seen James as well on 1861 and in the same parish in Northampton as Louisa. Not very good at Irish records or the military.

[Gardengirl]

Thanks Lin, you could be right about not getting her father's consent to marry. If she was born in 1844 (according to census ages) she might have only been 19 when she became pregnant with her first child who was born in Jan 1864. But just to confuse the issue further, I have just checked for her birth on freeBMD and there are three born between 1840 and 1850! None after that. Not helpful.

Dec 1841

Roberts

Louisa

Northampton

15

292

Jun 1843

ROBERTS

Louisa

Northampton

15

305

Sept 1843

ROBERTS

Louisa

Northampton

15

289

[Gardengirl]

Just thought if she had been married before her, she could have married as another name, her 1st husbands name not her maiden name. Is Roberts name from GRO records.

Not sure what you mean about the name?

[cbcarolyn]

the marriage is on Ancestry if I am reading this thread correctly, it's in London?

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1623/images/31280_194719-00530?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi49674&_phstart=successSource&pId=2021625

they are in different addresses

[cbcarolyn]

there is this marriage also, not sure if you have seen it

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2673937:1623?tid=171416310&pid=162346200808&hid=1013120004505

[Gardengirl]

Thanks, Carolyn, I don’t know why that didn’t come up in my Ancestry searches. The first one looks right, doesn’t it, so maybe they did leave it very late to get married. Maybe nobody in Northampton knew that they weren’t married so they kept it a secret until they moved to London and quietly got married there.

Your second link isn’t working for me at the moment. It just wont open.

Edit - yes, the second link is his second marriage - to Matilda Day. Louisa died in 1903

[cbcarolyn]

there are a lot of James Emerson army records on FMP

there is this one that might fit, I have not looked at them all

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO22%2F165%2F00063&parentid=GBM%2FWO22%2F165%2F00063%2F0135323

here is a different link straight to the image, you may already have it, it's a second marriage

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2673937:1623?tid=171416310&pid=162346200808&hid=1013120004505

It certainly looks like them in the marriage, the addresses all a bit odd though. As they were already living in London.

[teasie]

The recent Occupations thread about soldiers made me revisit this family and I have found what I believe are his army discharge papers

Just to add to the confusion, the Gro Regimental Birth Indices has an 1844 entry for James Emerson born Kendal, listed under the 67th Foot.

Also Mary A born 1845 Stranorlar, Thomas E 1850 Dublin,

The man I had assumed was his father attested into the 4th Regiment of Foot 1828-1842, and then transferred into the 55th 1842-1849, but never served in the 67th.

[Gardengirl]

Just to add to the confusion, the Gro Regimental Birth Indices has an 1844 entry for James Emerson born Kendal, listed under the 67th Foot.

Also Mary A born 1845 Stranorlar, Thomas E 1850 Dublin,

The man I had assumed was his father attested into the 4th Regiment of Foot 1828-1842, and then transferred into the 55th 1842-1849, but never served in the 67th.

Sorry, teasie, my knowledge of military stuff is not far off zero so I don't really understand what you have written.

• James Emerson b 1844 Kendal is my man but what are GRO Regimental Birth Indexes?
• Who are Mary A and Thomas E?
• Could you please explain and give me a link to the index that you are looking at?

Thanks for looking it up for me.

[Gardengirl]

DOH! I'm really a bit slow sometimes! I can see now who Mary and Thomas E are

[Gardengirl]

Ooh, look what I have just found! From the National Library of Ireland - Record of Military Baptisms !

Second entry - October 6th also gives his mother's name as Mary Shea (I assume that's her maiden name) . Then below it looks like 'so James Eccles & Margaret Reily' Does anyone know what that means?

Eccles is a name that has been used as a middle name in subsequent generations of this family

1850 baptism of Thomas Edward Emerson Dublin.jpg

[Karamazov]

Ooh, look what I have just found! From the National Library of Ireland - Record of Military Baptisms !

Second entry - October 6th also gives his mother's name as Mary Shea (I assume that's her maiden name) . Then below it looks like 'so James Eccles & Margaret Reily' Does anyone know what that means?

Eccles is a name that has been used as a middle name in subsequent generations of this family

1850 baptism of Thomas Edward Emerson Dublin.jpg

It’s ss under each baptism, meaning sponsors ie godparents.
Where did this baptism take place?
Christine

[ozgirl]

Could James Eccles and Margaret Reily be the God-parents?

Christine beat me to it - she is much better at Irish records!

[Gardengirl]

Thanks, Christine, (and Linda). It was at St Paul's in Dublin https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...25?pId=7862954

If those names are the godparents / sponsors, I am now very intrigued to find out who James Eccles was because the name was used by other families in subsequent generations so it must have had some great significance to them. I wonder who he was?

[teasie]

The 'ordinary' GRO birth registration for James also has the mmn as Shea/Shey

EMERSON, JAMES mmn SHEY GRO Reference: 1844 M Quarter in KENDAL UNION Volume 25 Page 488

[Gardengirl]

So what / where are the Gro Regimental Birth Indices?

[kylejustin]

So what / where are the Gro Regimental Birth Indices?

Births to serving british soldiers overseas. Not everyone utilised it though. Some just registered their events according to local law.

[kylejustin]

And they are on FMP if memory serves me.