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  • 1921 Advice

    Hi guys, last week I kindly had the help to solve Annie Phillips at last but I wondered if anyone may be able to help me narrow down the location of her surviving Son please?

    In 1911 he is still a child in the children's section of Stockton-on-Tees Workhouse and in 1939 he is living in Stokesley with a marriage in 1934 in the same location followed by the birth of children and a death but I'm having difficulty seeing him in the 1921 and hoped a fresh pair of eyes might help to narrow his location down so I can open the record

    Robert William Phillips, born 21 April 1905. Thank you in advance

    Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

    I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

  • #2
    I have found two possibilities both born County Durham but neither are 1905 for year of birth as per GRO online index but as we have discovered, the years of birth are not always accurate in 1921 census. I searched for his full name using variants and county of birth as Durham, nothing else.
    First name(s)
    Robert
    Last name
    Phillips
    Birth year
    1904
    Birth place
    Durham, Durham, England
    Parish
    South Shields
    Registration district
    South Shields
    County
    Durham
    Robert and 1 other are on this record

    First name(s)
    Robert
    Last name
    Phillips
    Birth year
    1906
    Birth place
    Tudhoe, Durham, England
    Parish
    Tudhoe
    Registration district
    Durham
    County
    Durham
    Robert, Sarah Ann, William and 2 others are on this record

    Comment


    • #3
      This one has correct name in full but wrong birth county and even further out in age. This time name search and yob 1905 +/2 as before but residence Yorkshire where he was in 1939 and no birth county.
      First name(s)
      Robert William
      Last name
      Phillips
      Birth year
      1907
      Birth place
      Leeds, Yorkshire, England
      Parish
      Hunslet
      Registration district
      Hunslet
      County
      Yorkshire (West Riding)
      Robert William, Jonathan, Emily and 2 others are on this record.


      This one correct year of birth but again birth county is wrong.
      First name(s)
      Robert
      Last name
      Philips
      Birth year
      1905
      Birth place
      Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
      Parish
      Sheffield
      Registration district
      Sheffield
      County
      Yorkshire (West Riding)
      Robert, George, Jane and 4 others are on this record.

      Do any of the these four men look likely?
      Last edited by GallowayLass; 17-01-22, 08:47.

      Comment


      • #4
        This is why I'm struggling as the years etc but perhaps the first one could be a possibility as when I searched for his Uncle and Mum I got Durham, Durham, England as the birth place until I clicked it and saw Stockton. I'll just click the first option and leave it at that if I don't get an exact hit. Thank you Galloway Lass for the help. I'll let you know what I find
        Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

        I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi, so I'm afraid the top one was for a father and a son so I'm now going to leave this one until I have a better idea. As he would be 16 I think I may have to figure out where he could be and who with 🤨
          Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

          I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Until 1918, the school leaving age was 13 years, I think, and was then raised to 14, so your guy was probably found employment c1918. If he was in the workhouse until then, he may have been found employment and also lodgings - being boarded out happened quite a lot for young people with this background. In which case, head of household may not have been aware of all his details, resulting in incorrect info having been entered on the census form.
            What work did he do when he married? I'm wondering if you can try and work backwards from his marriage, in an attempt to plug the gap?
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

            Comment


            • #7
              Apologies for not replying sooner but it's only taken me until now to find the memory stick that his 1939 was on. He is noted down as Master Farmer Blacksmith Heavy Worker so that one leaves me even more confused as it sounds like 2 entirely different jobs mixed together 🤨
              Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

              I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Could be a farming machinery blacksmith?
                Anne

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are you sure Farmer is not actually Farrier ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I only had one half of it saved to the stick but tomorrow I'm making the move from guest to paying member so I'll be able to see what I have on Ancestry. I did have it attached on there but it seems to have disappeared as has a few other records I had attached to him. I cannot think why on that one.
                    Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

                    I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Screenshot_20220128-141254-436.png
                      I think I can see the dot making it Farrier rather than Farmer
                      Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

                      I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It definitely is farrier in the image. There are not enough “legs” in the consonants for an r followed by an m.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm pretty sure that he would have had to serve an apprenticeship with a Blacksmith/farrier to become a "master." Perhaps the workhouse arranged for this, along with board whilst he served his time. If there's a good local studies section in your town library, you might find directories with the names and addresses of smiths/farriers.
                          Myself and several other children spent many happy hours in the village smithy watching the blacksmith shoe the huge carthorses or mend equipment. (No health and safety regs in those days and we learned so much about the world around us by watching adults go about their various crafts and skills.)
                          Janet in Yorkshire



                          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            To be honest there's not much known about the workhouses as no records survive beyond physically knowing that the main one was a hospital after it was a workhouse and that a few streets away had the children's homes part of it. A few census records exist of course and a news article that names one of my dad's distant uncles as a person providing money to the workhouse

                            To be honest if that was the thought I'm surprised the location is Stokesley and not Stockton-on-Tees, the main jobs here would have been the docks or brickworks etc
                            Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

                            I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lennon2011 View Post
                              To be honest there's not much known about the workhouses as no records survive beyond physically knowing that the main one was a hospital after it was a workhouse and that a few streets away had the children's homes part of it. A few census records exist of course and a news article that names one of my dad's distant uncles as a person providing money to the workhouse

                              To be honest if that was the thought I'm surprised the location is Stokesley and not Stockton-on-Tees, the main jobs here would have been the docks or brickworks etc
                              You would be surprised by how many tradesmen and other businesses still relied on horsepower, especially for local, around town journeys at that time. I wasn't born until after WW2 but remember going to stay with relatives in a town in Northumberland. The coalman, milkman and greengrocer all delivered by horse and cart.. Living in a small village, our deliveries all came by lorry, but some of the farms still had horses to work the land. Bear in mind that during WW2 (1939 -1945) there was petrol rationing so fuel was hard to get and also vehicles could be difficult to maintain and repair - horse power was far less costly. Horses hooves (the equivalent of our toenails) had to be trimmed every couple of months, so there was always work for farriers.
                              Do you know if your man serve in the forces during WW2? If so, perhaps he learned other skills and sought out a different form of employment when he was demobbed. What job did he do in later life?

                              I've just looked at the 1939 register entry and the address for Robert (farrier) & his wife Sybil is Eastgate, Marton, Guisborough - does that sound right for what you already know? (I think Guisborough would have been part of the Stokesley administrative district.)

                              Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 30-01-22, 10:25.
                              Janet in Yorkshire



                              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                That is indeed the correct 1939 but I don't know if he served in WW2 and he wouldn't have been old enough for WW1 surely? I've tried searching with Orphanhood, any of the words mentioned in the 1939 etc with no luck. I'm wondering if he may have been in the forces between the Wars?

                                I actually researched the company his Uncle worked for last night, the one that everyone seemed to be employed by and by 1921 the company were possibly in the process of changing hands in terms of ownership and weren't currently open which may explain the many "out of work" at the time, on top of the circumstances from the war at the time.
                                Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

                                I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  This might be of help re: reg districts. You can click through from there to see what constitutes the former Stokesley District.

                                  https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/distric...lesbrough.html
                                  Last edited by GallowayLass; 30-01-22, 12:34.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Marton was not part of Guisborough, separate parish, according to this map

                                    https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/NRY/Marton.

                                    Seems to be a rural area - so maybe he needed to find a job elsewhere following WW2. Middlesbrough and Stockton would have been the nearest big places, both with greater job opportunities than a village.
                                    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 30-01-22, 16:45.
                                    Janet in Yorkshire



                                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                    Comment

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