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Murray family mystery to solve. Help needed

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  • #41
    It seems odd harriett made up a different father for each child on their birth records. This implies in my mind they had different father's. Otherwise she would pretend to be married to the one man. Though all occupations of a travelling salesman of sorts match up.

    what is your proof that lowenstein is the father of sydney? The RAF papers? Family lore? I would get the will. And also maybe consider the ancestry DNA if you haven't. That may find descendants of his family, confirming what you think.

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    • #42
      these are my thoughts:

      I am still puzzled by the address in Kentish Town for the 1890 and 1895 births and wonder if there is any further connection with the residents there.

      Like Vera not sure where you have the connection to St Georges Square, the Murrays seemed to be in Pimlico, Southwark and Battersea, can you provide details please.

      I agree with Kyle that each child has a slightly different 'father' on the birth, and seems odd not to consistent.

      Have you followed up the Vollers? I assume that there is a connection somewhere, even if they were close neighbours/friends.

      Have each of the siblings been followed through, did any of those receive financial help? Any certificate is worth scrutinising, for address, informants/witnesses.

      She stayed close to her family as her mother and Augusta were at the births, so they were helping her at the time.

      Do you have Harriet in 1901?

      I thought her Death address was interesting, was she maybe a servant there?

      This week the 1921 census is out - it might shed more light.
      Last edited by cbcarolyn; 03-01-22, 10:36.
      Carolyn
      Family Tree site

      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
        Have you contacted the owners of these two private trees on ancestry. I searched using the name of Harriet Hyde.

        801CDBD0-58A5-4A21-8FB7-E5F11591EF36.jpeg
        Hello

        Unfortunately I don't see them in Ancestry I have registred to it. But seems I don't put the proper filters :-(

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
          So was this a test then? I am not sure why I have spent hours looking for Harriet's ancestry only to find you knew this all along. That is not called confirming your data.
          Hello Katarzyna

          Not at all, my intent was to focus and seek for more help on Sidney's father. Where I am lost due to lack of clarity as you could see.

          I am so sorry for that

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
            It would have been useful if you had come back with more information sooner as we were not aware of all the info you had.

            With the certs it is obvious that Murray is not Harriets married name as her mother is with her at the birth. and her name is Murray.

            Do you have the will of Siegmund Marcus LÖWENSTEIN? I would think if he had a family it will be on there.
            https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource
            If you don't you can order it from probate service for £1.50

            If you have the documentation from RAF records that he is the father, I am not sure what else you are looking for.

            NB Herbert was born 1898 and Harriets death is 1902 so I assume not his birth that caused her death.

            EDIT - sorry post crossed with Vera's.

            I guess it is possible that the children are from different fathers

            https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar
            Are you referring to the attached picture? Or can I buy something with more details?

            Do you know to what the 3s 2d mean?
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
              It seems odd harriett made up a different father for each child on their birth records. This implies in my mind they had different father's. Otherwise she would pretend to be married to the one man. Though all occupations of a travelling salesman of sorts match up.

              what is your proof that lowenstein is the father of sydney? The RAF papers? Family lore? I would get the will. And also maybe consider the ancestry DNA if you haven't. That may find descendants of his family, confirming what you think.
              This is the issue I have nothing relating but the stories written in a notebook (Stating Name and function). No official documentation/certificate.
              The only

              My great aunt just found this new element with a pictures of the lady that was taking care of my Great granfather. Mrs Ronson but didnot find anything on ancestry on her.

              Unfortunately nothing link to Sidney Father.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #47
                @Murray1983 that refers pre decimalisation, pounds, shillings and pence. If your username is anything to go by i'm 2 years older than you decimalisation was before our time (15/02/1971).

                You can order a copy of Siegmund's probate and will here Search probate records for documents and wills (England and Wales) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
                Jay

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                  these are my thoughts:

                  I am still puzzled by the address in Kentish Town for the 1890 and 1895 births and wonder if there is any further connection with the residents there.

                  Like Vera not sure where you have the connection to St Georges Square, the Murrays seemed to be in Pimlico, Southwark and Battersea, can you provide details please.

                  I agree with Kyle that each child has a slightly different 'father' on the birth, and seems odd not to consistent.

                  Have you followed up the Vollers? I assume that there is a connection somewhere, even if they were close neighbours/friends.

                  Have each of the siblings been followed through, did any of those receive financial help? Any certificate is worth scrutinising, for address, informants/witnesses.

                  She stayed close to her family as her mother and Augusta were at the births, so they were helping her at the time.

                  Do you have Harriet in 1901?

                  I thought her Death address was interesting, was she maybe a servant there?

                  This week the 1921 census is out - it might shed more light.
                  The only further info I found on Voller family the previous posted pictures just provided by my great aunt
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Murray1983 View Post

                    Are you referring to the attached picture? Or can I buy something with more details?

                    Do you know to what the 3s 2d mean?
                    yes you can order the will, it costs £1.50 and it is sent electronically to you within a few weeks (sometimes less) . I would imagine he had a detailed will, and could have bursaries etc as he had no children (well officially)

                    link in my post and above post. It might have all your answers - you never know.
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by JayG View Post
                      @Murray1983 that refers pre decimalisation, pounds, shillings and pence. If your username is anything to go by i'm 2 years older than you decimalisation was before our time (15/02/1971).

                      You can order a copy of Siegmund's probate and will here Search probate records for documents and wills (England and Wales) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
                      Great thanks very useful. Do you think in it there would be further details ?

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        that is quite a reasonable amount of money.

                        here is a will of mine only 2 pages
                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-v...&usePUBJs=true

                        some go to many pages and name many people

                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          OK Very interesting. let's see how it would look like. :-)

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Murray1983 View Post
                            OK Very interesting. let's see how it would look like. :-)
                            yes go for it - it's only £1.50
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment

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