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Who is Alfred's wife?

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  • Who is Alfred's wife?

    The life of Alfred Canton is well documented, but his wife is a mystery. His parents James Canton & Mary Gibbons married in Q1 1852 in Pembroke. Alfred was born 2.1.1856 (from 1939 reg) and baptised 27.1.1856. He had a sister Rosa Ann who married James Nicholls and they had a daughter Helen. In 1871, 1881 & 1891 Alfred is single, living with his parents and is a postman or similar. In 1901 he is single and living with his niece Helen Nicholls.
    In 1905 he is on the electoral roll at Woodbine Terrace Pembroke.
    In 1911 he is married to Emma age 41 and two boys described as Cyril age 7 and Byron age 5. These appear to be Alfred Cyril Gibbons Canton and Lionel Byron Canton. Both have a mmn Moore. Also there is Edward Norris aged 85. It is part of my wild theory below that this should be Morris.
    In 1934 Alfred CG Canton (ie the son) married Kathleen M Coates.
    In 1939 Alfred senior is living with his daughter-in-law Kathleen M age 30 still at Woodbine Terrace as a retired postman. Also there is one redacted which is probably Kathleen's son who was born in London the previous year. His wife Emma is in a mental hospital and his son Alfred C G is a police sergeant living alone in London.
    In 1943 Alfred died age 87 in Pembroke and in 1955 Emma died age 84 in Carmarthen.
    So, who was Emma? I cannot find a suitable Canton=Moore marriage or indeed any Alfred Canton marriage between 1901 and 1911. Alfred junior's middle name Gibbons indicates that he really is Alfred senior's son and not from any prior relationship of Emma's.
    This is my wild theory. In Q1 1903 Alfred Carter married Emma Morris in Pembroke. I can't find a couple with these names in 1911. Is it possible that this Alfred is really Alfred Canton? The time & place are right. If so then Edward Norris might be Emma's father spelt wrong? Then to complete the unlikely story the boys' mmns should be Morris and not Moore. It seems most unlikely that could be so many errors in the records for one couple but I don't have any better idea. In a way I shall be happy if someone shoots down this idea as this Emma's background seems very murky.
    I have traced, on paper, the names of descendants of Alfred C G and Kathleen who are probably alive today but have been unable to make contact through social media, but I doubt that they would know any answer anyway.
    People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
    Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

  • #2
    You are right! the marriage certificate is on Ancestry in the Pembrokeshire Parish records. Alfred's surname is Canton on there. Emma is Emma Moore, father Mynette James Moore (seems odd!). I can send you the image if you don't have Ancestry.
    Anne

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    • #3
      So, sorry, should have said you are partly right. No Morris name on the certificate but surely it's better that it is Moore!! Should also have said that Alfred is a letter carrier and his father James Canton.
      Anne

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      • #4
        Thanks Anne, that solves the puzzle. I have now found the image you referred to. pity I did not think of that myself.
        People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
        Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

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        • #5
          Transcript of Emma’s baptism is in FMP. Slightly different version of father’s forename but very close.
          First name(s) Emma
          Last name Moore
          Sex Female
          Birth year -
          Baptism year 1870
          Baptism date 13 Feb 1870
          Place Colwall
          Father's first name(s) Myniett
          Father's last name Moore
          Mother's first name(s) Sarah Anne
          Mother's last name -
          County Herefordshire
          Country England
          Record set Herefordshire Baptisms
          Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
          Subcategory Parish Baptisms

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          • #6
            Possible marriage of Emma’s parents.
            First name(s) Mynett
            Last name Moore
            Marriage quarter 4
            Marriage year 1866
            Registration month -
            MarriageFinder™ Mynett Moore married one of these people
            Sarah Burrup, Elizabeth Evans, Edward Jenkins
            District Upton on Severn
            District number -
            County Worcestershire
            Country England
            Volume 6C
            Volume as transcribed 6C
            Page number 539
            Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
            Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
            Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
            Collections from Great Britain, England

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            • #7
              Thanks GL. Looking at the 1871 census shows that his wife is called Sarah, so must be Sarah Burrup. A surname like that should be easy pickings.
              People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
              Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

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              • #8
                Birth certificate entry on GRO index
                MOORE, EMMA BURRUPP
                GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in LEDBURY Volume 06A Page 469
                Ledbury to Colwall, her place of baptism is just under 5 miles.

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                • #9
                  1871 census
                  Mynet Moore
                  37
                  1834
                  Head
                  Male
                  Castle Morton, Worcestershire, England
                  Colwall
                  Colwall St James
                  Herefordshire
                  England
                  Ledbury
                  Ledbury
                  6
                  89
                  2681
                  90
                  14
                  Mynet Moore 37 Head
                  Sarah A Moore 25 Wife
                  James Moore 3 Son
                  Emma Moore 1 Daughter

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                  • #10
                    Looking at that 1911 census, the handwriting is a bit wibbly and fine but I’d plump for Norris.

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                    • #11
                      Emma’s father’s baptism. Transcript only on FMP. That’s a corker of a forename for variations
                      First name(s) Minet
                      Last name Moore
                      Gender Male
                      Birth year -
                      Birth place -
                      Baptism year 1836
                      Baptism date 30 Mar 1836
                      Residence Worcester, England
                      Place Castlemorton
                      County Worcestershire
                      Country England
                      Father's first name(s) James
                      Father's last name Moore
                      Mother's first name(s) Jane
                      Mother's last name -
                      Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
                      Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
                      Subcategory Parish Baptisms

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                        Looking at that 1911 census, the handwriting is a bit wibbly and fine but I’d plump for Norris.
                        Yes definitely Norris. We can now forget the idea that he is Emma's father as her name was Moore not Morris as the index says. It's amazing that both surnames were put into the index incorrectly. They are quite clear on the image that we are seeing but I am not sure what the source of the printed index was. Perhaps there was an intermediate hand written document with opportunities for transcription errors.
                        People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
                        Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Poor original GRO indexing. Carter for Canton is understandable but Morris for Moore is just careless. No wonder you couldn't find it! Very unusual names for Emma's family!!!
                          Anne

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                          • #14
                            I have found several differences between FreeBMD and the GRO on births when the FreeBMD transcription from the printed index was correct but GRO say their's is correct so the GRO was done from some other source.
                            Last edited by webwiz; 26-11-21, 09:56. Reason: spelling
                            People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
                            Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by webwiz View Post
                              I have found several differences between FreeBMD and the GRO on births when the FreeBMD transcription from the printed index was correct but GRO say there's is correct so the GRO was done from some other source.
                              I can't find the info on the internet, but think the GRO recreated the indexes by going back to the original records. But can't remember how they did it. All records start at the local reg office, and the data/returns they provide was made into indexes. so there were transcription errors, and the returns didn't have MMN.

                              sure the info is out there somewhere why they differ.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by webwiz View Post
                                I have found several differences between FreeBMD and the GRO on births when the FreeBMD transcription from the printed index was correct but GRO say their's is correct so the GRO was done from some other source.
                                Do the GRO have a database or index of marriages which can be accessed on line - as with births & deaths?
                                People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
                                Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  No, not yet. Only 3rd party indexes to the printed pages of the index on ancestry etc.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by webwiz View Post

                                    Do the GRO have a database or index of marriages which can be accessed on line - as with births & deaths?
                                    I think they had planned to, but ran out of funds. I believe the digital, new, indexes on site were part of the DOVE project to digitise the certs.

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