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Dutch Ancestor help please

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  • #21
    Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
    Wow team work, looks like you have cracked it. I did search around for 1871 census - sure he must be on there, just hiding.

    Wonder why the baptism was wrong. Maybe they had 2 children by same name? first one died?
    That’s the way I was thinking too. According to two other trees on ancestry for Johanna Louisa Jacobs, a sister of Johannes, she has been listed in one as born 1842 in Zevenaar (public tree) and the other in Rotterdam! (private tree) She is the only child listed to the same parents as the Johannes in post #15. There are husband details for her though. That one’s also worth a message.

    Comment


    • #22
      Done a little more digging - Johan Fredrik was born in Zevenaar ca 1807, parents Johan Abraham Jacobs and Johanna Louisa Breitenbach. He died on 20 Feb 1863. Info found on daughters marriage records here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...741&cc=1949343 pages 226-236, info for Frederik on page 236.

      Friederika (also Frederika) according to the registration pages on openarchives was born in Xanten in Prussia on 16 Jan 1816. After Fredriks death she moved to Rotterdam to live with her children, and subsequently to 's Gravenhage. (after 1877). Haven't tracked her further yet.

      Also noted that the year of birth for Johannes Henricus matches with his age in the 1911.
      Linda


      My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

      Comment


      • #23
        Here's a possible baptism for the father, found here: https://www.geldersarchief.nl/bronnen/personen :

        Doop: Johann Friedrich Jakobs, 22-12-1806
        Volgnummer op pagina: 7
        Kernplaats: Zevenaar
        Dopeling: Johann Friedrich Jakobs
        Moeder: Joh. Louisa Breitenbach
        Getuigen e.a.: nn Schoenau
        Vader: Johann Abraham Jakobs
        Kerkelijke gemeente: Zevenaar
        Kerkelijke gezindte: Nederduits Gereformeerd en Burgerlijke gemeente
        Toegangsnummer: 0176
        Inventarisnummer: 1844.3
        Pagina: 41

        The mother's surname sounds German, and the spelling of Friedrich and Johann also seem German.
        The religion is given as 'Nederduits Gereformeerd' which means 'Low German Reformed'

        I've found a few siblings for Johann Friedrich on the same site, but won't have time to go through them until tomorrow.
        Sarah

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post

          That’s the way I was thinking too. According to two other trees on ancestry for Johanna Louisa Jacobs, a sister of Johannes, she has been listed in one as born 1842 in Zevenaar (public tree) and the other in Rotterdam! (private tree) She is the only child listed to the same parents as the Johannes in post #15. There are husband details for her though. That one’s also worth a message.
          She seems to fit with same parents https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


          • #25
            Looks like the sister stayed in Netherlands, so he likely came on his own as an adult. Should he have arranged for naturalisation? or was there some parts British owned at the time? GL posted it was near German border, so possibly not British part. My history of that area is non existent. Only recently have I been looking as there was something else I was interested in.
            Last edited by cbcarolyn; 09-11-21, 12:44.
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


            • #26
              Friedrika died in Rotterdam on 19 Feb 1895. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource

              Her mother is named as Gertrud Meussen - no father mentioned.

              The image is here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...298&cc=1576401
              Linda


              My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

              Comment


              • #27
                There were 10 children (and one stillborn baby) born to Frederik and Frederika in Zevenaar between 1838 and 1859. 2 died young (Eduard b 1848 and Karel b 1850)

                https://www.geldersarchief.nl/bronne...113&miview=tbl
                Linda


                My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                Comment


                • #28
                  Here is the Estate Inventory of Johan Fridrich Jacobs who died 20 February 1863 in Zevenaar, which mentions Hendrik Jacobs as well as Johan Fredericus Jacobs whose occupation looks like 'slagter' which means 'slager' = butcher, in Dordrecht. Dordrecht is about 25 km southeast of Rotterdam.

                  https://www.geldersarchief.nl/compon...miview=viewer2

                  Edit to add: Johan Fredericus Jacobs also appears in the tree in my next post below.
                  Sarah

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I found a tree for Johan Friedrich Jacobs with lots more details of children, siblings and parents: https://gw.geneanet.org/mariojvissch...drich&n=jacobs

                    According to this tree, most of the Jacobs children stayed in the Netherlands, in Zevenaar, Rotterdam, Dordrecht and The Hague ('s-Gravenhage), but there was another brother, Otto Lodewijk Jacobs, who also moved to England and married in Liverpool in 1882.
                    Sarah

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Cloggie That geneanet tree looks very interesting and full for the members of the family who stayed in The Netherlands but it seems that the tree owner hasn’t a clue about Johannes’ life in England nor that of his younger brother although there is an emigration date for him and a wife’s name.

                      Maybe he is on the 1871 census somewhere just badly mistranscribed?
                      I don’t have FMP now. Might be worth looking at their transcripts. It wouldn’t be the first time somebody has been found in one version and not the other

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        GallowayLass clicking through the tree on Geneanet, there were some details in German, so I suspect the tree owner may be German or Dutch and not have info about or access to UK genealogy sites. That might explain why they have no further details of Johannes Hendrikus.

                        I did have a look on FMP this afternoon at any Johannes/Johan/John Jacobs (or similar) names in London, but didn't find anything.
                        I haven't been able to find Otto anywhere in England either, but hopefully they'll turn up somewhere.


                        Edit: I found Otto's marriage reference, with Lodewijk mistranscribed as Lodewigk:
                        First name(s) Otto Lodewigk
                        Country England
                        Last name Jacobs
                        Volume 8B
                        Marriage quarter 3
                        Volume as transcribed 8B
                        Marriage year 1886
                        Page number 354
                        Registration month -
                        Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
                        MarriageFinder™ Otto Lodewigk Jacobs married one of these people
                        Emma Reite
                        Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
                        District Liverpool
                        Sarah

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I looked for them too, on FMP and ancestry, would Otto be changed into another name?
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                            if he was a publican have you searched the newspapers, did he own the pub? Not sure that it would give you anymore insight to his birth. I have a publican and seem to find quite a few articles about him.

                            Also did he have a will, as he had children, would assume there would be no mention of other family members, my publican left an allowance to spinster sister.

                            What was the name of the pub?
                            Yes he had many pubs over the years. He inherited the first one when he married 2nd wife, whose husband was a publican, so she took over the pub when he died. I know everything about his life in England, including photo's etc. Well almost all, I can't find him in 2011.
                            Its his birth and life in Rotterdam I really need to know about, as none of his English records (even the one in the the newspaper when his son tried to kill him. Yep, some juicy stories in his lifetime!) give any clue about his previous life before he emigrated over here.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by ozgirl View Post
                              Hi Sandra, I also have Dutch ancestors and have spent many hours on the Dutch archives. The Rotterdam records are mostly found on their own website: https://stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/zo...tdek/stamboom/

                              I have had a look through them and unfortunately can find no Johannes Hendricus (all variations) born on 14 Aug 1837. There was one that looked good, who was born 14/8/1836, but I could trace him through to his death in 1884. (I was ignoring surnames). On the Archieven site, I again searched for a Johannes Hendricus, father Frederick, found one born 13/8/1837, surname Mackaaij, but again he died young.

                              I will have another go tomorrow and see if a nights sleep helps the old grey matter!
                              Hi Ozgirl, that is exactly what I keep coming up with too over the years.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                I used to work with a guy from Netherlands and he pronounced the J of Jacob as a Y, didn't see anything obvious, but wondered if this might turn up some more English records, just a thought.
                                Yes, he pronounced his surname Yacobs. But spelt it Jacobs.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                                  Was Johannes a witness at the 1869 wedding of William Searles who was later to be his brother in law?
                                  No, William Henry Searles married Sophia Lydia Hughes on 26/09/1869. Witness' were George Hubert & Fanny Th?? I have never been able to make out her surname lol

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                                  • #37
                                    Here's Otto in the Rotterdam Population Register in 1875: https://stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/zo...263&miview=ldt

                                    It shows that he lived in Amsterdam before moving to Rotterdam (see image).
                                    Also listed at the same address are (among others):
                                    Frederika Wilhelmina Meussen
                                    Elisabeth Jacobs
                                    Frederika Wilhelmina Jacobs
                                    Maria Johanna Paulina Jacobs

                                    Searching further for Otto on the Rotterdam Archives site, I've found him in 1887 with his wife Emma Reitz, showing their previous address as Liverpool: https://stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/ap...miview=viewer2
                                    Otto's occupation I think says vleeschouwer, which means butcher.
                                    Sarah

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                      this him in 1911:

                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ce&pId=4391868

                                      says he is married and formerly a cabinet maker, wife Emma with him. I think I have the right ones, he remarried?

                                      It's a Dutch Almshouse in Charlton - he has put a pob but can't make sense of it Jevendae?

                                      I assume that this is the place he died
                                      Wow!! Thank you so much. I have been looking for them for years!!
                                      That is my g-granddad Johannes and his 2nd wife Emma (nee Chamberlain, formally Pike) I have photo's of Emma's daughter Minnie (Dad used to call her Aunt Min)
                                      It looks like the name of a town or maybe village?
                                      At least now it gives me something to work on. Thanks again. No idea why it didn't come up in any of my searches over the years?

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                                        Found on ancestry.
                                        Gelderland Province, Netherlands, Civil Registration, 1811-1950
                                        Johannes Henricus Jakobs
                                        Male
                                        14 aug 1840
                                        Zevenaar, Gelderland, Netherlands
                                        17 aug 1840
                                        Johan Fridrich Jakobs
                                        Friederika Wilhelmina Meussen
                                        80
                                        211792
                                        Yes!!!! thank you so much. That is him x

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Sandra View Post

                                          Wow!! Thank you so much. I have been looking for them for years!!
                                          That is my g-granddad Johannes and his 2nd wife Emma (nee Chamberlain, formally Pike) I have photo's of Emma's daughter Minnie (Dad used to call her Aunt Min)
                                          It looks like the name of a town or maybe village?
                                          At least now it gives me something to work on. Thanks again. No idea why it didn't come up in any of my searches over the years?
                                          Pretty sure the name of the town is Zevenaar as GallowayLass found. It's completely on the opposite side of the country from Rotterdam, but I've just found in the Rotterdam Archives that quite a few members of the Jacobs family moved to Rotterdam from Zevenaar.
                                          Sarah

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