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Dutch Ancestor help please

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  • Dutch Ancestor help please

    Hi People, I’m hoping someone could push me in the right direction. Please bear with me, as its a very long post.
    I keep visiting this line, my paternal grandfather's line, every few months, but still not getting anywhere. I’m wondering, has anyone done their Dutch Ancestry?

    Back in 2002, 19 years ago now, my dad gave me an old family bible. He said it belonged to his Dutch granddad. Inside the front cover is a list of all the births and death’s of his children. This is what made me start researching, as I found it fascinating.
    As you know back then, not a lot was online, so I joined ‘Friends Connected’ (now Friends Reunited) and spent a lot of time in LDS churches and Record Offices, going though fishe and film. Even the 1891 census was only on microfishe then. Friends Connected changed its name to Friends Reunited, there was a lot of squabbling, so I ‘came over to the other side’ and joined this wonderful forum about 2006ish?
    Fast forward, and I have still got no further with my Dutch family, so looking for some advise/help etc.

    My g-granddad was called Johannes Hendricus Jacobs. According to the bible page, he was born on the 14th August 1837 in Rotterdam. Died 28th July 1921 in ‘The Dutch House’ Charlton, Greenwich.
    I know a lot about him. He lived in Dean Street, Soho. He was a Cabinet Maker. My dad had a beautiful grandfather clock that he made.
    He married Annie Searles on 22nd December 1872 in St Anne’s, Soho. She died young of TB.
    On the certificate Johannes father is down as Frederick Jacobs – Occupation Butcher.

    My grandfather Albert Henry Jacobs (1883-1957) used to go back and forth to Rotterdam. I have a photo of him with the photographers name on it taken in Rotterdam, and a photo of him on a sailing ship on one of his many trips over there. This has convinced me that he had family living there.

    Johannes remarried, changed his name to John Henry Jacobs and became a publican....as I said, I know all about his life in England.
    What I would like to know, is when did he come over? He’s not in the 1871 census. 1st mention of him is his marriage to Annie.
    There was a lovely lady on here called ‘Cloggy’ quite a few years back, who tried to help me find out who Johannes parents were. I don’t know if she’s still a member on here.
    She came up with two names Johannes Jacobs & Maria Godfroij as his parents.

    As the Internet has progressed and there are more sites to visit, I have been trying to confirm that these are the right parents. I have even done an Ancestry tree with them just in case people recognise the names and get in contact. But as yet can not confirm, they are.
    I have been on various Dutch genealogy sites including
    https://www.openarch.nl/?lang=en
    https://www.wiewaswie.nl/
    https://www.archieven.nl/en/
    and a few others. But I still can’t find my g-grandfathers birth.

    I have seen the names Johannes Jacobs, his wife Maria Godfroij, (the names that ’Cloggy’ gave me) and their children. None of whom match up with Johannes Hendricus (I have tried various spellings of Hendricus without a D, with a K etc) who has a father called Frederick or Johannes Frederick, again, I have tried all sort of combinations over the years.
    Johannes (my -g-granddad) doesn’t help, by keep changing his birth year on the census’s. I also can’t find him in the 1911 census.

    During lockdown, I did my DNA via Ancestry.
    There are no matches on my granddad Albert (who was born in London) or my g-granddad Johannes on Ancestry.... but I uploaded my raw DNA to My Heritage, and got a distant match.
    It doesn’t say how distant though. I immediately messaged this person, who’s surname is Jacobs, the same as my maiden name. But have had no reply. It looks like he hasn’t been on My Heritage for years.

    My DNA ethnicity shows I’m mainly South East England, but I have a lot of Northwestern Europe, and Germanic Europe.
    The most frustrating thing, is the Dutch have certain naming patterns, surnames, family names & patronymic names. I have been going round in circles trying to work what name is what, I still have no idea what a patronymic name is!

    I would love to know more about my Dutch side, and if they travelled to the Netherlands from Germany or Prussia..... and would love to get in contact with any Dutch cousins, 3rd cousins or further. As I must have some out there.

    So sorry for the long post, thanks for staying with it.
    Sandra

  • #2
    Sorry but I have no skills or knowkedge that would help you but I hope you solve it eventually. Your heritage makes fascinating reading.

    Comment


    • #3
      See this webinar for an explanation of Patronymics.

      https://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/patronymics/

      Sorry cannot help you- our Polish ones are difficult enough!! Good luck

      Have you tried this webinar?

      https://familytreewebinars.com/webin...tch-ancestors/
      Last edited by Katarzyna; 08-11-21, 17:13. Reason: added info
      Kat

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you both.

        Galloway Lass I am fascinated by it, especially as I have photo and written proof of my Dutch heritage. Its so frustrating not being able to take the first step of finding my g-granddads birth.

        Katarzyna I have just read the link for Patronymics. I still can't work it out ha ha.
        There are so many Johannes Johannes Jacobs, and Johanna Johannes Jacobs, with so many variations in between! Also about 6 different ways of spelling Hendricus/Henricus/Henderikus and it goes on lol.

        Yes I have been on Familytreewebinars, but it doesn't really help me find my g-granddads birth or family.
        I think my only hope of finding his birth, and so finding his parents and then going back, is to hope someone does a DNA test and posts it on Ancestry.
        Good luck with your Polish ancestors.
        Last edited by Sandra; 08-11-21, 18:28. Reason: edited for spelling

        Comment


        • #5
          can't help either but was curious about this statement:

          Johannes remarried, changed his name to John Henry Jacobs and became a publican....as I said, I know all about his life in England.
          What I would like to know, is when did he come over? He’s not in the 1871 census. 1st mention of him is his marriage to Annie.
          There was a lovely lady on here called ‘Cloggy’ quite a few years back, who tried to help me find out who Johannes parents were. I don’t know if she’s still a member on here.
          She came up with two names Johannes Jacobs & Maria Godfroij as his parents.
          when you say he is not on 1871 census, he could be but you have not found him? Annie was from England? met her in England?
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
            can't help either but was curious about this statement:


            when you say he is not on 1871 census, he could be but you have not found him? Annie was from England? met her in England?
            Yes, she was from Little Braxted in Essex, but came down to London to work in Service. In 1871, she was single and a Cook. Living at 5 Pemberton Road, Islington.
            She moved down with her sister Frances who was was a Domestic Servant in 1871 living at 11, Cavendish Road, Marylebone. Frances also married at St Anne's Soho, but three years later in 1875.
            So I think after the 1871 census, Annie moved out of Islington and moved into the Soho/Marylebone area for work near her sister, where she met Johannes.
            Annie & Frances brother William also moved from Essex to Golden Square, Soho to work as a Waiter. He too got married in St Anne's, Soho earlier than his sisters in 1869.

            Johannes & Annie's first child was born on 8th Sept 1873, exactly 9 months after they married.

            I have even searched through ships manifests looking for Johannes, again drawn a blank. In one of the census's (can't remember off hand which one now) his place of birth was Holland, then in bracket's it said he is Naturalised, which must have been when he changed his name to John Henry. But I have scoured the National Archives looking at Naturalisation Records, again, hit a blank.

            Comment


            • #7
              if he was a publican have you searched the newspapers, did he own the pub? Not sure that it would give you anymore insight to his birth. I have a publican and seem to find quite a few articles about him.

              Also did he have a will, as he had children, would assume there would be no mention of other family members, my publican left an allowance to spinster sister.

              What was the name of the pub?
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


              • #8
                Was Johannes a witness at the 1869 wedding of William Searles who was later to be his brother in law?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Sandra, I also have Dutch ancestors and have spent many hours on the Dutch archives. The Rotterdam records are mostly found on their own website: https://stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/zo...tdek/stamboom/

                  I have had a look through them and unfortunately can find no Johannes Hendricus (all variations) born on 14 Aug 1837. There was one that looked good, who was born 14/8/1836, but I could trace him through to his death in 1884. (I was ignoring surnames). On the Archieven site, I again searched for a Johannes Hendricus, father Frederick, found one born 13/8/1837, surname Mackaaij, but again he died young.

                  I will have another go tomorrow and see if a nights sleep helps the old grey matter!
                  Linda


                  My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I used to work with a guy from Netherlands and he pronounced the J of Jacob as a Y, didn't see anything obvious, but wondered if this might turn up some more English records, just a thought.
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Sandra, I have just come back to Family Tree Forum after years away. Like ozgirl above, I can't find anything immediately on the Rotterdam City Archives site, but I will have a better look when I have more time.
                      Sarah

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        this him in 1911:

                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ce&pId=4391868

                        says he is married and formerly a cabinet maker, wife Emma with him. I think I have the right ones, he remarried?

                        It's a Dutch Almshouse in Charlton - he has put a pob but can't make sense of it Jevendae?

                        I assume that this is the place he died
                        Last edited by cbcarolyn; 09-11-21, 09:58.
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think it reads Jevenaar which according to Google is Zevenaar but the fly in the ointment is that Zevenaar is in eastern Holland near the border with Germany. Rotterdam is c.80 miles west of Zevenaar.

                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zevenaar

                          His age of 71 in 1911 (birth year of 1839/1840) which is consistent with his age on both his marriage certificates. I can see him with 2nd wife Emma in 1891 and 1901 censuses where birth year is 1840/1841. All of these are not fitting with an 1837 baptism and yet that info comes from a family bible which you’d expect is correct.
                          What’s his estimated birth year in the 1881 census?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                            I think it reads Jevenaar which according to Google is Zevenaar but the fly in the ointment is that Zevenaar is in eastern Holland near the border with Germany.

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zevenaar
                            good find, couldn't make it out. Guess Holland/Netherlands is tricky to pinpoint as it was a bit of a changing place with Germany etc
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Found on ancestry.
                              Gelderland Province, Netherlands, Civil Registration, 1811-1950
                              Johannes Henricus Jakobs
                              Male
                              14 aug 1840
                              Zevenaar, Gelderland, Netherlands
                              17 aug 1840
                              Johan Fridrich Jakobs
                              Friederika Wilhelmina Meussen
                              80
                              211792

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I’m sure as eggs is eggs that the above is him as when I clicked on the link for father is says he’s a slager which is Dutch for butcher
                                Johan Fridrich Jakobs
                                Male
                                slager
                                33
                                Friederika Wilhelmina Meussen
                                Johannes Henricus Jakobs

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  That looks good - his birth reg is here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...384&cc=1949343

                                  And his father is a butcher!

                                  Linda


                                  My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Here is a Johannes Hendrikus Jacobs, born in Zevenaar. It doesn't give a date of birth, but judging by the parents' dates of birth, it could be a fit: https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/s...nten/I2635.php
                                    Only this one appears to be married to Johanna Maria Bartraij, and has different parents' names than found so far.

                                    EDIT: ignore this one, as the correct family has since been found below.
                                    Sarah

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Wow team work, looks like you have cracked it. I did search around for 1871 census - sure he must be on there, just hiding.

                                      Guess family bible was updated a long time after his birth
                                      Last edited by cbcarolyn; 09-11-21, 11:23.
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        This tree owner lives in USA, is +60 age group and lived the first few years of life in Netherlands. It’s 3-11 months since last sign in but it’s worth a message I reckon. Same birth day and month as the family bible but different year.

                                        3E2B1E61-2612-43E9-9FBC-A2E095C9BBED.jpeg

                                        Comment

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