Help finding Charles Davies

[cbcarolyn]

Yep, think this is defo what happened. The owner of that tree confirmed he isn't convinced of the Mary Griffiths 1st wife either but I think the rest of it is probably correct. It's given me a lot to work with and I'm still pretty sure that Charles' mum was a Rees so just need to find the marriage and knowing more about John might narrow it down.

did he have any certs? I am sure someone has got Rachels, but not put them or the tree up, and then everyone else has taken their word for it. Mary griffiths husband was a puddler, which is in the iron industry I think. and Griffiths not matching with MMN either. Good that they replied quickly. There are a few with similar tree.

[Nora]

The 1963 m of John Davies to Mary Griffiths in the tree gives John's occupation as Puddler.1861 has a John Davies b Gellygaer as an Iron Miner.

So Nora your theory and Carolyns is correct. John Davies m twice, first to a Mary ?? maiden name, the mother of Charles b 1868 and others. That Mary died ? around 1877. Then to another Mary nee Davies, the Widow of Rbt Powell who is with John Davies and her children with Rbt in the 1881 as well as Rachel Davies b 1878.

Vera

Yep, think this is defo what happened. The owner of that tree confirmed he isn't convinced of the Mary Griffiths 1st wife either but I think the rest of it is probably correct. It's given me a lot to work with and I'm still pretty sure that Charles' mum was a Rees so just need to find the marriage and knowing more about John might narrow it down.

[vera2013]

I've sent the owner of this tree asking how he knows Mary Griffiths is the mother of Charles Davies. I'm also linked to him through DNA so I'm guessing his tree is right in part, just need to see how he came to the conclusions he has!

The 1963 m of John Davies to Mary Griffiths in the tree gives John's occupation as Puddler.1861 has a John Davies b Gellygaer as an Iron Miner.

So Nora your theory and Carolyns is correct. John Davies m twice, first to a Mary ?? maiden name, the mother of Charles b 1868 and others. That Mary died ? around 1877. Then to another Mary nee Davies, the Widow of Rbt Powell who is with John Davies and her children with Rbt in the 1881 as well as Rachel Davies b 1878.

Vera

[Nora]

have you seen this certs

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/62293790/person/30138599415/media/55b6a621-876e-40b2-98b7-3d3a64dd6fc6?_phsrc=fVi46970&usePUBJs=true

bit further down the line with child of Thomas
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...677427/gallery

I've sent the owner of this tree asking how he knows Mary Griffiths is the mother of Charles Davies. I'm also linked to him through DNA so I'm guessing his tree is right in part, just need to see how he came to the conclusions he has!

[Nora]

...who is William? I have got lost!

Vera beat me to it and explained!

[vera2013]

...who is William? I have got lost!

Hello Carolyn. William is the son of Charles Davies b 1868 Bedwellty. Charles Davies married Elizabeth Ann West in 1895.

William Davies b 1897 married Annie James in 1920 at Bedwellty. Witnesses M Powell and ? Powell

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

have you seen this certs

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/62293790/person/30138599415/media/55b6a621-876e-40b2-98b7-3d3a64dd6fc6?_phsrc=fVi46970&usePUBJs=true

bit further down the line with child of Thomas

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/114477663/person/130249677427/gallery

[cbcarolyn]

...who is William? I have got lost!

[cbcarolyn]

there is this tree on Ancestry, not really seeing how they have come up with griffiths, but interesting to see they have an exact dob and death, wonder if they have the certs

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/154506340/person/142057541866/facts

[Nora]

Lots of possibilities Nora. Still not seeing Ann and Charles from the 1891 in other Census.

Had hoped to find more military records. Unfortunately the last page of the record is faded.

Would cost a fortune to purchase all the bc's and then maybe not able to confirm
EDIT You could purchase just Charles for now.

1868 Jun Q Bedwelty mm n Rees

I will look around for any c!ues. I am trying to find out who the Powell witnesses were at William's wedding. That's the 1920 wedding of Charles and Elizabeth Ann's son. Is that the correct wedding? Thought they may have been related to David Powell from the 1881.

Vera

Will definitely buy the Charles Davies cert. I couldn't find Ann and Charles from 1891 on other census's either so wont rule it out just yet.

Yes the wedding of William is correct. There's also a lot of other children for Charles and Elizabeth Ann but they died young or as babies. The names of them are the same as possible siblings for Charles. Eg there's a John Rees, Thomas, David. Might mean nothing because the names are common but then again they did like to use family names in them days so who knows!

[vera2013]

Lots of possibilities Nora. Still not seeing Ann and Charles from the 1891 in other Census.

Had hoped to find more military records. Unfortunately the last page of the record is faded.

Would cost a fortune to purchase all the bc's and then maybe not able to confirm
EDIT You could purchase just Charles for now.

1868 Jun Q Bedwelty mm n Rees

I will look around for any c!ues. I am trying to find out who the Powell witnesses were at William's wedding. That's the 1920 wedding of Charles and Elizabeth Ann's son. Is that the correct wedding? Thought they may have been related to David Powell from the 1881.

Vera

[Nora]

I can see the 1891 Charles with mother Ann in Tredegar, Could be but note Ann a Widow and Charles didnt record father John as being deceased at time of his marriage to Elizabeth Ann West in 1895 but then that is not always recorded. Not seeing Charles with mother Ann in 1881 but will recheck

Putting up two signatures 1st of Charles marriage, 2nd a Charles Davies from the Army enlistment of 1885. ? same signature. Either way doesnt confirm who his parents are although record does refer to John Davies.



FMP record

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Image | findmypast.co.uk

Vera

I'd never seen that army record before. I think I'd found it on Ancestry but it required a fold3 account to view it and because there's never been any mention of the army before, I foolishly ignored it. The signatures do look very similar and the places match up with the census's.

Your point about Ann being a widow in 1891 is a good one, never thought of that. I think I only assumed it was maybe my Charles because of the Tredegar link. I'm pretty sure now that all the Davies children in 1871 and 1881 were born in Bedwellty, except Rachel. I think she may have been born in Merthyr. I can find them all on the GRO but would need to purchase quite a few to see which ones are the right ones, if they're correct! Still struggling with the Davies, Powell link though and a marriage if at all between John and a possible Mary Rees.

[vera2013]

I can see the 1891 Charles with mother Ann in Tredegar, Could be but note Ann a Widow and Charles didnt record father John as being deceased at time of his marriage to Elizabeth Ann West in 1895 but then that is not always recorded. Not seeing Charles with mother Ann in 1881 but will recheck

Putting up two signatures 1st of Charles marriage, 2nd a Charles Davies from the Army enlistment of 1885. ? same signature. Either way doesnt confirm who his parents are although record does refer to John Davies.



FMP record

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Image | findmypast.co.uk

Vera

[Nora]

I have no Welsh expertise, although DHs family are all from there!

There is a john Rees Davies MMN West born 1897 in Merthyr, I assume that is why you are leaning towards Rees?

Leaning towards Rees because on GRO for Charles Davies born 1869+-2 in Bedwellty. There 2 possibilities, 1 with mmn Rees and 1 with mmn Dickins but I can't find any connection to John Davies, Charles dad, to a Dickins but there's lots for possible marriages to Rees. The Merthyr GRO entry though could also be him with mmn Powell. I based my search on Bedwellty though because he gives that as birthplace in 1901 and 1911 but who knows!

[cbcarolyn]

I have no Welsh expertise, although DHs family are all from there!

There is a john Rees Davies MMN West born 1897 in Merthyr, I assume that is why you are leaning towards Rees?

[Nora]

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=6897&h=1495689&tid=167240555&pid=392184804713&queryId=3b58867a4d8bddef266a79b35531d3f9&usePUB=true&_phsrc=suE22532&_phstart=successSource

This is the Charles in 1891 that I was leaning towards being mine so I searched for a marriage between Ann Rees (I'm convinced Charles's mum was a Rees) and John Davies and found far to many.

It may not even be him though because the census with the Powells on it makes more sense and the idea of maybe John marrying Mary Powell whose brother Robert married John sister. So confusing but a good theory!

[vera2013]

certainly mighty hard.

I did note that the 2 Powell children were born in same place as Rachel Davies, and the wife Mary had changed age, so could be a new wife? could have died at same time as Rachels death, in merthyr. There is a Mary Davies death in 1877

	DAVIES, RACHEL	REES
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 635

Many Mary Davies deaths

there is a marriage of a May Powell in same quarter, seems a bit quick, but maybe what happened in this times when things were tough on your own.

You said it Carolyn. Can find children that would fit mm n Rees and Powell

Rachel not too sure. I did find a Rachel Davies b Merthyr m to a William Eames/Emes who was b Islington but can only see a Rachel Davies reg Merthyr 1878 with mm n Davis on GRO. So the Swansea reg could be the Rachel from a second m of John Davies.

John Rees Davies on the 1881 b 1873 may fit in with the second m also.

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

rees certainly seems to fit with most of the children, Rachel seems to be missing atm, and I am not liking to Swansea one - too far away really.


You could post links/details of the other finds it might help to get a second opinion. I assume you can't see anything to see that the davies-Rees family are in fact yours?

and of course Mary Davies could be the second Mary Davies, but not necessarily anything to do with Powell!

[vera2013]

This highlights the problems of similar names. Having looked at the Charles in the Army, I think his age fits more with the Charles b 1867 Merthyr Tydfil reg mm n Powell. I think you looked at that one already Nora. However not found a marriage for a John Davies to a Mary Powell. That Army Charles' religion was Wesleyan so possible parents marriage may not be on FMP or Ancestry

The Army records are on Ancestry and FMP. Can link or email if you need.

Possible death for Charles is 1932.

I think one possible scenario for your Charles is that he is the son of John Davies who m Mary Powell whose brother Robert Powell m Mary Davies sister of John Davies.

There are many possibilities as you know just need to follow any possibilities to confirm or eliminate.

Just parked this here as I had it in my head. Will now read previous posts for clues.

Vera

[Nora]

certainly mighty hard.

I did note that the 2 Powell children were born in same place as Rachel Davies, and the wife Mary had changed age, so could be a new wife? could have died at same time as Rachels death, in merthyr. There is a Mary Davies death in 1877

	DAVIES, RACHEL	REES
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 635

Many Mary Davies deaths

there is a marriage of a May Powell in same quarter, seems a bit quick, but maybe what happened in this times when things were tough on your own.

I noticed the age too and that's why I assumed he had remarried and because the Powell children are listed as step children. The maiden name being Rees is also confusing because I'm leaning towards John's son Charles's mothers maiden name being Rees. There's also a Charles Davies in 1891 that I think might be mine but it says he's living with his mum and she isn't called Mary. Maybe I'm wrong though.