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  • #61
    After a lot of Googling I think the place is Cwmsyfiog, in New Tredegar which lines up with Charles place of birth on the census and like you say Vera, same place on 1871 census. I think it's the right birth cert at least!

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    • #62
      Oh good news Nora.

      Still left with John and Mary. Have whittled down some but only possibilities as difficult to get even an inkling with so many Same names.

      ​​​​​​There is one which has John b 1842 with widowed m Ann plus sibs. Father Thomas plus marriage for Ann and Thomas Davies.Will post with links tomorrow.

      Vera
      ​​​​​​

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      • #63
        Going up a generation in the hope of getting closer to John and Mary and their marriage

        Looking at John Davies b 1841/42 Gelligaer only. Have whittled him down to 3 families

        There is a John D with parents William and Ann and John D with parents Enoch and Sarah. The parents can be seen in 1861 but John D not with them although there is a 22 year old John D boarding in Gelligaer.

        This one has John D with mother Ann in 1851 and 61.
        1851 Wales Census - Ancestry.co.uk

        noted an Elizabeth born pre 1841 and think this may be her with parents Ann and Thomas
        1841 Wales Census - Ancestry.co.uk

        Ann and children together in Gelligaer in 1861 with the loss of baby Rees but additional Lewis b 1844.
        1861 Wales Census - Ancestry.co.uk

        A Lewis Davies can be seen with Grandparents Lewis and Carherine George in 1851
        1851 Wales Census - Ancestry.co.uk

        There is a marriage for an Ann George in 1837
        Ancestry.co.uk - Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994

        Not finding any marriage for John Davies to Mary Rees. The marriage cert of John D to Mary Powell ? 1877 would confirm/eliminate Thomas.

        Not getting my bearings on this one at all with the mass of same names. May be looking at the children of John and Mary (1st wife) would be the way forward although your Charles is not revealing anything at the moment.

        Vera





        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
          Going up a generation in the hope of getting closer to John and Mary and their marriage

          Looking at John Davies b 1841/42 Gelligaer only. Have whittled him down to 3 families

          There is a John D with parents William and Ann and John D with parents Enoch and Sarah. The parents can be seen in 1861 but John D not with them although there is a 22 year old John D boarding in Gelligaer.

          This one has John D with mother Ann in 1851 and 61.
          1851 Wales Census - Ancestry.co.uk

          noted an Elizabeth born pre 1841 and think this may be her with parents Ann and Thomas
          1841 Wales Census - Ancestry.co.uk

          Ann and children together in Gelligaer in 1861 with the loss of baby Rees but additional Lewis b 1844.
          1861 Wales Census - Ancestry.co.uk

          A Lewis Davies can be seen with Grandparents Lewis and Carherine George in 1851
          1851 Wales Census - Ancestry.co.uk

          There is a marriage for an Ann George in 1837
          Ancestry.co.uk - Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994

          Not finding any marriage for John Davies to Mary Rees. The marriage cert of John D to Mary Powell ? 1877 would confirm/eliminate Thomas.

          Not getting my bearings on this one at all with the mass of same names. May be looking at the children of John and Mary (1st wife) would be the way forward although your Charles is not revealing anything at the moment.

          Vera




          This is fantastic work but I understand the frustration of not getting your bearings. It seems like everyone born at the time had the same name, it's so annoying! I'll send some messages to the people who have trees with Mary Powell in them, see if anyone has the cert, if not I'll buy it. It'll probably help anyway just to confirm his fathers name.
          I've tried looking at John and 1st wifes children but not getting anywhere. Charles is the only one I'm sure of. There's lots of hints for a few of the children but I'm not sure because a lot of copy and pasting of trees has happened.

          Comment


          • #65
            Not seen an enoch anywhere, would this mean he could be dismissed? quite a good unique name
            Last edited by cbcarolyn; 25-09-21, 22:54.
            Carolyn
            Family Tree site

            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


            • #66
              I've found this for John and possible parents:
              ​​​​​​https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...try&h=14137285

              Can't find them later though. Found a marriage for Ann and Morgan with Ann being Ann Evans:
              ​​​​​​https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource

              But can't seem to find any births for any of the children with MMN as Evans. Not sure what any of it means though!

              Comment


              • #67
                John with parents Morgan and Ann in 1841 was with them in the 1851 as b in Aberdare. Can find it in my notes. Will check for record

                Vera

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                • #68
                  I feel like I'm taking up all the space here trying to work all this out! I think I've found Johns son, David Davies but it holds no clues to John other than his name on the wedding cert. Think this is his marriage: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource
                  Place and job are the same for John as on Charles's wedding cert. Think I can track David through 1891, 1901 and 1911 and he lives in the area I know and where Charles's son lived. Not fully sure but like 80% sure!

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                  • #69
                    I started looking at children. Not got far with Thomas. Thought David's son had emigrated but that was a different David m to Mary Jones. That looks a better David given the area of m and closeness to your Charles'. You can only go with the possibilities. Referring to GRO for mm n not greatly helpful.
                    ​​80% a good start for WaIes I think.

                    I even googled how to research Welsh families. I will need to read the article again. Started about how good it was that so many records were now available online.

                    Vera

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by vera2013 View Post

                      I even googled how to research Welsh families. I will need to read the article again. Started about how good it was that so many records were now available online.

                      Vera
                      did it give you anything useful? I did look in the welsh newspapers a while back maybe a search with some of the addresses might bring up something

                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                        did it give you anything useful? I did look in the welsh newspapers a while back maybe a search with some of the addresses might bring up something
                        https://www.familytreemagazine.com/h...h-ancestry/ten

                        Not read it fully. Looking in the newspapers had forgotten about that. Good way of proving names with addresses/occupations.

                        Vera

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                        • #72
                          I am wondering if they maybe in Welsh, as there seems to be Welsh speakers in the family. Names so common hard to find anything that seems to be them.
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                            I am wondering if they maybe in Welsh, as there seems to be Welsh speakers in the family. Names so common hard to find anything that seems to be them.
                            I also wondered this but despite being welsh, I don't speak nor understand it so I'm no help! It's uncommon though for people to speak and understand welsh in the valleys, especially in the areas where it seems Charles lived and where his son lived. I don't know how it used to be though.

                            The problem is there just too many with the same name and other than the Rhymney or Tredegar locations. I don't for sure where they came from so nothing can be narrowed down. it's hurting my head looking at so many records and getting no where haha.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Just need to keep chipping away. Unfortunately if only possibilities certs would need to be purchased to hopefully get some clues. Normaly clues would come from parish records available. Two possibilities for the children so far

                              Death of Charles Davies b 1865 buried 27 Aug 1932 12 Thomas St, Rhymney
                              However Charles lived many years in Hill Street Bedwellty
                              ​​​​​
                              ​​​​​Death of John Rees Davies b 1874 d 1896 Bedwelty.

                              Vera
                              ​​​​

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                                Just need to keep chipping away. Unfortunately if only possibilities certs would need to be purchased to hopefully get some clues. Normaly clues would come from parish records available. Two possibilities for the children so far

                                Death of Charles Davies b 1865 buried 27 Aug 1932 12 Thomas St, Rhymney
                                However Charles lived many years in Hill Street Bedwellty
                                ​​​​​
                                ​​​​​Death of John Rees Davies b 1874 d 1896 Bedwelty.

                                Vera
                                ​​​​
                                There is a Hill Street in Rhymney which is where I've always assumed he lived. Thomas Street doesn't come up with anything on google but there is a Thomas Fields not far from Hill Street. I'll search the bygone/past and present groups for Rhymney on Facebook and see what I can find about Hill and Thomas Street.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  I have lost the thread where you are at, so many names the same. Can you do a quick summary?
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                    I have lost the thread where you are at, so many names the same. Can you do a quick summary?
                                    I'll try but I might also get confused! The Charles and John Rees Davies that Vera mentioned are John Davies and Mary (the 1st wife with likely maiden name Rees) children. Charles lived in 3 Hill Street, Rhymney according to 1901 and 1911. Charles is the only child of John that I'm confident on. The rest are just a minefield. Too many possibilities and same names.
                                    Still unsure who John Davies's parents are or who Mary 1st wife's parents are. Can't seem to find a marriage record for them. I'm probably gonna buy Johns marriage record to 2nd wife Mary Powell and see who is father is to help confirm or rule out some people, maybe.
                                    I hope this is what you meant, if not I'm sorry lol, I tried but it's a mess!

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by Nora View Post

                                      There is a Hill Street in Rhymney which is where I've always assumed he lived. Thomas Street doesn't come up with anything on google but there is a Thomas Fields not far from Hill Street. I'll search the bygone/past and present groups for Rhymney on Facebook and see what I can find about Hill and Thomas Street.
                                      Checking 1911 on FM P address look up, there is a Thomas Street in Thomas Town Merthyr Tydfil

                                      The Charles Davies 1932 death is on GRO registered Bedwelllty

                                      Vera

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by Nora View Post

                                        I'll try but I might also get confused! The Charles and John Rees Davies that Vera mentioned are John Davies and Mary (the 1st wife with likely maiden name Rees) children. Charles lived in 3 Hill Street, Rhymney according to 1901 and 1911. Charles is the only child of John that I'm confident on. The rest are just a minefield. Too many possibilities and same names.
                                        Still unsure who John Davies's parents are or who Mary 1st wife's parents are. Can't seem to find a marriage record for them. I'm probably gonna buy Johns marriage record to 2nd wife Mary Powell and see who is father is to help confirm or rule out some people, maybe.
                                        I hope this is what you meant, if not I'm sorry lol, I tried but it's a mess!
                                        I wasn't sure what was being ruled in or being ruled out as not been keeping up with posts. the welsh newspapers don't go beyond 1919, was hoping that maybe Charles death maybe in the.

                                        I have noted down the addresses and see if there is anything in the papers, not unique names not making papers searching easy either. Will have a wander around later, and see if I can get a better idea exactly where.

                                        I have
                                        1871
                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...321_5324-0432?

                                        can't read hamlet on this one at the moment

                                        1881
                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...312_5316-0737?
                                        21 George street, Merthy Tydfil - again can't decipher hamlet

                                        1891
                                        haven't found

                                        1901
                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...935_4937-0984?

                                        3 Hill Street, Tredegar Coal Hewer

                                        1911
                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...31850_0181_06?

                                        same place
                                        3 Hill street, Tredegar (St George parish)

                                        Coal Haulier, pob New Tredegar

                                        and for John Davies I have
                                        1891
                                        https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...438_4440-0419?

                                        Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil POB Gelligaer
                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelligaer
                                        Carolyn
                                        Family Tree site

                                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post

                                          I wasn't sure what was being ruled in or being ruled out as not been keeping up with posts. the welsh newspapers don't go beyond 1919, was hoping that maybe Charles death maybe in the.

                                          I have noted down the addresses and see if there is anything in the papers, not unique names not making papers searching easy either. Will have a wander around later, and see if I can get a better idea exactly where.

                                          I have
                                          1871
                                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...321_5324-0432?

                                          can't read hamlet on this one at the moment

                                          1881
                                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...312_5316-0737?
                                          21 George street, Merthy Tydfil - again can't decipher hamlet

                                          1891
                                          haven't found

                                          1901
                                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...935_4937-0984?

                                          3 Hill Street, Tredegar Coal Hewer

                                          1911
                                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...31850_0181_06?

                                          same place
                                          3 Hill street, Tredegar (St George parish)

                                          Coal Haulier, pob New Tredegar

                                          and for John Davies I have
                                          1891
                                          https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...438_4440-0419?

                                          Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil POB Gelligaer
                                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelligaer
                                          All of those are believed to be correct so far for Charles and family. 1901 and 1911 are also correct, I've had those in my tree for ages haha.
                                          I found this for 1891 for Charles and am leaning towards it being him because he gives pob as New Tredegar like on other census's:
                                          ​​​​​​https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...13&usePUB=true
                                          The 1891 for John Davies is also believed to be correct.

                                          I know Dowlais well, I live there haha. I don't know Gelligaer very well though.

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