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**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 18:53

Where did the reference to this come from? Jedburgh is not Glasgow, Lanarkshire but Roxburghshire in the opposite side of the country.

Birth of Son William OSBORNE (1812–1875)

24 Sep 1812 • Jedburgh, Glasgow, Scotland

Have you seen the original marriage record?

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 18:57

Not sure that the two Johns in 1841 are the same people. The one in Ayrshire is a HLW (hand loom weaver) and the one in Nottinghamshire is a FWK (frame work knitter).

Same with 1851 for occupations. John in Nottinghamshire is a widower but John in Ayrshire is still married to Margaret.

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 19:07

1851 place of birth for the John in Scotland and still at the same address is not St. Evox, Ayrshire but St.Quivox. OH has ancestors from there and by gum, ancestry has had some inventive manglings of it LOL. The original name of the parish as shown in the GENUKI link below is not to be confused with Sanquhar parish in Upper Nithsdale area of Dumfriesshire.

GENUKI: St Quivox, Ayrshire

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/AYR/StQuivox

St Quivox Ayrshire genealogy

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 19:08

Plum in the middle of the censuses, John is in a postal directory at same address and in same occupation

(56) - Towns > Ayr > 1845-1846 - Directory for Ayr Newton Wallacetown St Quivox Prestwick and Monkton - Scottish Directories - National Library of Scotland

https://digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/archive/86568568?mode=transcription

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 19:23

Ordnance Survey Placename Books Ayrshire vol.04, parish of Ayr.

OS1/3/4/13 | ScotlandsPlaces

https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/ayrshire-os-name-books-1855-1857/ayrshire-volume-04/13

Google maps today shows two of the places, Seafield and as near to Bellisle as I can get it are about 10 mins apart on foot.

**Darksecretz** · 24-07-21, 19:29

gawd bloody hell..lol

I have a copy of the marriage copied from a collaboration tree. below

I have no idea where the baptisms are/were as I cannot find any trace of them online. I did think that the Jedburgh one it might be something like Jedburgh place in Glasgow but I could be barking up the wrong tree.

**Darksecretz** · 24-07-21, 19:35

Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post

Not sure that the two Johns in 1841 are the same people. The one in Ayrshire is a HLW (hand loom weaver) and the one in Nottinghamshire is a FWK (frame work knitter).

Same with 1851 for occupations. John in Nottinghamshire is a widower but John in Ayrshire is still married to Margaret.

This is what is confusing me... someone somewhere has mashed the two together.. I cannot see/find any other likely marriage for John/Margaret if I could find the baptisms for William/Hunter then I might make some headway. The other thing that is niggling me is that the son John.. John Kenna/edy Osborn.. I did wonder if that was Margarets MN?

**Darksecretz** · 24-07-21, 19:41

Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post

Not sure that the two Johns in 1841 are the same people. The one in Ayrshire is a HLW (hand loom weaver) and the one in Nottinghamshire is a FWK (frame work knitter).

Same with 1851 for occupations. John in Nottinghamshire is a widower but John in Ayrshire is still married to Margaret.

um, well isn't that one and the same thing?

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 19:44

SP index to Banns and Marriages has a different date. Even if that earlier date is the payment for the first calling of the banns, 10 weeks till the 6th August is an awful long time till the actual marriage takes place. Normal timescale is banns read on three consecutive Sundays and the marriage shortly thereafter either in church or commonly in the bride’s residence.

I tried to view image but most annoyingly it said “Error 404 Sorry this page seems to be missing. It may have been removed, or the URL is out of date or mistyped. Really need to see what the original entry says.

MCCLELLAND

MARGARET

JOHN OSBORNE/FR2438 (FR2438)

30/05/1807

578/

80 228

Ayr

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 19:47

Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post

um, well isn't that one and the same thing?

Not really no. Very similar but different. My understanding is FWK mostly made cotton cloth, did ribbing work and later adapted to lace whereas HLW would make cloths from different types of material as well as cotton.

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 19:49

Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post

This is what is confusing me... someone somewhere has mashed the two together.. I cannot see/find any other likely marriage for John/Margaret if I could find the baptisms for William/Hunter then I might make some headway. The other thing that is niggling me is that the son John.. John Kenna/edy Osborn.. I did wonder if that was Margarets MN?

The Margaret who married the John in Ayrshire had a maiden surname of McClelland / McClellan also variants McLellan / McLelland.

**vera2013** · 24-07-21, 19:51

I remember this one Julie.

Going around the houses, there is an S P death for Margaret Osborn w idow of John in 1861. Informant Robert Wilkie g/son. Rbt Wilkie died 1863 aged 26 father Thomas informant. Details of parents Thomas Wilkie, mother Janet Wilkie nee Osborn. Did your Notts couple have a daughter Janet?

vera

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 19:53

Now that’s interesting. The date of giving in their names in that image is 1809 not 1807. That’s probably why the event as originally indexed won’t open up. Also the marriage was 6 June not August as in #01.

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 20:12

I’ve tried all three sets of church registers on SP for the whole country looking for children to a John (with or without a wife as they often didn’t get a mention) and used variants and fuzzy matching but found nothing that fits anywhere near the date of their marriage. I can’t even find entries for William or for Hunter anywhere in Scotland with different parents that match the dates in #01.

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 20:13

No joy on familysearch either.

**GallowayLass** · 24-07-21, 20:33

Death of Margaret OSBOURNE or McCLELLAND mms McCALL. Indexed correctly under her married and maiden surnames but yet again, I can’t see the certificate as the same flaming error appears! I wonder if it’s my browser that is playing up or SP have problems?

OSBORNE

MARGARET

87

MCCALL

1861

578/ 303

Ayr

MCCLELLAND

MARGARET

87

MCCALL

1861

578/ 303

Ayr

There is a baptism on Colmonell that fits with Margaret on 1851 census in Ayrshire but child’s name is Mary not Margaret but as I’ve seen the two interchangeable before, I am not unduly worried about that. Would like to see if info on father matches the 1861 death.

MCCLELLAN

MARY

JOHN MCCLELLAN/JANET MCCALL FR59 (FR59)

F

01/10/1781

582/

10 55

Colmonell

**Darksecretz** · 24-07-21, 20:39

Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post

The Margaret who married the John in Ayrshire had a maiden surname of McClelland / McClellan also variants McLellan / McLelland.

Yes I get that, BUT, that marriage is morphed to 'my' John Osbourn with Margaret ???? from Scotland... so if that John in Ayr marries Marg McLellan.. who the heck does my John marry??? flummoxed

vera2013 no AFAIK they had no daughters, the only children I know about are the ones listed here.

**Darksecretz** · 24-07-21, 20:48

Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post

I’ve tried all three sets of church registers on SP for the whole country looking for children to a John (with or without a wife as they often didn’t get a mention) and used variants and fuzzy matching but found nothing that fits anywhere near the date of their marriage. I can’t even find entries for William or for Hunter anywhere in Scotland with different parents that match the dates in #01.

welcome to my world!.. This is the problem I have been having.. looking for Hunter as I thought [wrongly!!] that he'd be easy to find.. haha er NO..

**Darksecretz** · 24-07-21, 20:55

Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post

Death of Margaret OSBOURNE or McCLELLAND mms McCALL. Indexed correctly under her married and maiden surnames but yet again, I can’t see the certificate as the same flaming error appears! I wonder if it’s my browser that is playing up or SP have problems?

OSBORNE

MARGARET

87

MCCALL

1861

578/ 303

Ayr

MCCLELLAND

MARGARET

87

MCCALL

1861

578/ 303

Ayr

There is a baptism on Colmonell that fits with Margaret on 1851 census in Ayrshire but child’s name is Mary not Margaret but as I’ve seen the two interchangeable before, I am not unduly worried about that. Would like to see if info on father matches the 1861 death.

MCCLELLAN

MARY

JOHN MCCLELLAN/JANET MCCALL FR59 (FR59)

F

01/10/1781

582/

10 55

Colmonell

um so Margarets maiden name was McLelland or McCall? or was her mother a McCall?

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