Change of Surname from Ford to Turner

[barbebarn]

1881 Census

RG11 Piece 1725 Folio 96 Page 35
High Street, Low Leyton, West Ham

1) TURNER, John; Head; M; 33; M; Plasterer; Born Stratford;
2) TURNER, Mary S.; Wife; M; 26; F; Born Liverpool;
3) TURNER, John L.; Son; U; 7; M; Scholar; Born Buckhurst Hill
4) TURNER, Edith M.S.; Daur; U; 5; F; Scholar; Born Poplar
5) TURNER, James W.; Son; U; 3; M; Scholar; Born Poplar
6) TURNER, Herbert G.; Son; U; 1; M; Born Leyton
7) TURNER, Sydney, E.; Son; U; 4 mos; M; Born Leyton My grandfather
8) KNOX, Thomas; Lodger, U; 20; M; Plasterer, Born Limehouse

[barbebarn]

Can you search FMP by Piece/Folio/Page Nos for a census?

[cbcarolyn]

Can you search FMP by Piece/Folio/Page Nos for a census?

I don't know how to either :(

here is the 1871 for the father John Ford/Turner b 1822
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcr...1%2F0002893717

here is the 1881 father no longer alive Just jane ford/turner (Hudson) & Harry
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcr...1%2F0002456882

[vera2013]

Can you search FMP by Piece/Folio/Page Nos for a census?

Yes it you go into Record Set first it will reveal other names however.

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

need the 'beginning' of John Ford/Turner b 1821. His marriage cert says father a bricklayer.

Do keep coming back to this, but this John is a Gardener with son William also a gardener. For John I would expect to be the first born, and this William is older than John, but he could be the second John born

bit of a long shot, but there is a William ford b Stratford living with a John Ford widow

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=try&h=4658486

1851 census

Sub district West Ham
Enumeration district 1E
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1768
Folio 446
Page 25
Schedule 81

It is one of those areas, that was Essex then, and guess some are in Essex CC archives.

[vera2013]

need the 'beginning' of John Ford/Turner b 1821. His marriage cert says father a bricklayer.

Do keep coming back to this, but this John is a Gardener with son William also a gardener. For John I would expect to be the first born, and this William is older than John, but he could be the second John born



It is one of those areas, that was Essex then, and guess some are in Essex CC archives.

So this is a possibility for John Ford father of John Ford b 1821 Stratford, Essex? With a brother William. There is also a Margaret wife and child. Need to check them in 1841. Hopefully Turner will pop up

I do wonder about the Stratford pob for John b 1821. Jane b 1826 looks a positive for Stratford, Essex with an 1841 living with mother in West Ham. There is also Stratford le Bow which is Middlesex. John and Jane married Hackney, Middlesex. ?First child Margaret b 1845 Stratford Bow, Middlesex but then John b 1848 Stratford, Essex.

Barebam do you have the birth cert of John b 1848 West Ham?

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

So this is a possibility for John Ford father of John Ford b 1821 Stratford, Essex? With a brother William. There is also a Margaret wife and child. Need to check them in 1841. Hopefully Turner will pop up

I do wonder about the Stratford pob for John b 1821. Jane b 1826 looks a positive for Stratford, Essex with an 1841 living with mother in West Ham. There is also Stratford le Bow which is Middlesex. John and Jane married Hackney, Middlesex. ?First child Margaret b 1845 Stratford Bow, Middlesex but then John b 1848 Stratford, Essex.

Barebam do you have the birth cert of John b 1848 West Ham?

Vera

Did look around for Margaret, there is one that ends up in an institution that could be her. I have lost my way on William, found one b Stratford and a gardener with a Eunice 1871 but found a marriage transcription says his father George

1861 is here

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8767/images/ESSRG9_1052_1057-1106?

[cbcarolyn]

So this is a possibility for John Ford father of John Ford b 1821 Stratford, Essex? With a brother William. There is also a Margaret wife and child. Need to check them in 1841. Hopefully Turner will pop up

I do wonder about the Stratford pob for John b 1821. Jane b 1826 looks a positive for Stratford, Essex with an 1841 living with mother in West Ham. There is also Stratford le Bow which is Middlesex. John and Jane married Hackney, Middlesex. ?First child Margaret b 1845 Stratford Bow, Middlesex but then John b 1848 Stratford, Essex.

Barebam do you have the birth cert of John b 1848 West Ham?

Vera

birth cert is here, father is a labourer, living in ???ngham place

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-v...&usePUBJs=true

I don't think I have seen the 1841 census that you refer

I do often look at Edith streets to see if it helps..couple here in Stratford, but not helping locate address.

http://edithsstreets.blogspot.com/20...stratford.html
http://edithsstreets.blogspot.com/20...ord-great.html

there are some images on Family search, but can't see period needed, bit of a mix includes Harlow and West Ham and many many miles apart, as Harlow is my area!

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/494773?availability=Family%20History%20Library

[vera2013]

Did look around for Margaret, there is one that ends up in an institution that could be her. I have lost my way on William, found one b Stratford and a gardener with a Eunice 1871 but found a marriage transcription says his father George

1861 is here

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8767/images/ESSRG9_1052_1057-1106?

That's interesting. The Margaret on the 1861 b Hackney, Middlesex. The Margaret on 1851 b West Ham.

Vera

[vera2013]

birth cert is here, father is a labourer, living in ???ngham place

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-v...&usePUBJs=true

I don't think I have seen the 1841 census that you refer

I do often look at Edith streets to see if it helps..couple here in Stratford, but not helping locate address.

http://edithsstreets.blogspot.com/20...stratford.html
http://edithsstreets.blogspot.com/20...ord-great.html

there are some images on Family search, but can't see period needed, bit of a mix includes Harlow and West Ham and many many miles apart, as Harlow is my area!

https://www.familysearch.org/search/...tory%20Library

So definitely on right track with John b 1847 birth parents.

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

That's interesting. The Margaret on the 1861 b Hackney, Middlesex. The Margaret on 1851 b West Ham.

Vera

- yes I spotted that, I can't find her birth on GRO

I have found 2 marriages to a Margaret in Hackney (Blackley widow in 1833 - so guessing not her maiden name) and (1844 Twigg father George - so assume that this is the one that goes onto marry Eunice)

Bothered by 1833 being so early and Margaret not born until 1844.

[vera2013]

- yes I spotted that, I can't find her birth on GRO

I have found 2 marriages to a Margaret in Hackney (Blackley widow in 1833 - so guessing not her maiden name) and (1844 Twigg father George - so assume that this is the one that goes onto marry Eunice)

Bothered by 1833 being so early and Margaret not born until 1844.

There is a Bridget Margaret Ford on GRO1843 Hackney reg mmn Twigg. Mother Margaret Ford was b Ireland.

Not sure who Eunice is?

Can see 1871 for Mg t b 1844 in whouse. Will check out Guardians

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

There is a William Ford with Eunice Ford in 1871 and there is this marriage - I assumed same William remarrying

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61700&h=3907727&ssrc=pt&tid=171416310&pid=162300431544&usePUB=true

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8913&h=10042733&ssrc=pt&tid=171416310&pid=162300431544&usePUB=true

and to Margaret Twigg

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1623/images/31280_197726-00432?pId=3222783

father George :(

The census doesn't declare a relationship, so maybe that they are not father and son.

[barbebarn]

I am overwhelmed by the information all of you are providing on this thread and will try and sort it all out going forward.

I would like to start with the 1861 Census that I am pretty sure it is the correct one for John(1847) and his father John(1821)

RG9 Piece 301 Folio 123, Page 22, GSU roll 542610

1) John FORD, Head 40, Labourer, born Burnham, MDX
2) Jane FORD, Wife, 35, born West Ham, Essex,
3) John FORD, Son, 14, born West Ham, Essex
4) Eliza FORD, Daugh., 10, born Bromley, MDX
5) George FORD, Son, 5, born Bromley, MDX

I would like to work back from here starting with 1851 census which you may have already provided and I will look and see if you have. I am busy with two other projects; renovating a bathroom and building a website of my husbands war time letters.

[vera2013]

Just parking this here. Name of TUNNER. I haven't had time to check it out as there are some obvious anomalies ie M0ther's name and a daughter, Margaret, I cannot find later on a census or a death but John, spouse and son John all born Stratford, Essex, England and living Bromley St Leonard on 1851 census. Probably a coincidence but worth looking at.

HO107; Piece: 1555; Folio: 426; Page: 5; GSU roll: 174787
Name: John Tunner
Age: 3
Born abt 1848
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Tunner
Mother's Name: Fanny Tunner
Gender: Male
Where born: Stratford, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Bromley St Leonard
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration District: Poplar
Sub-registration District: Bow

Household Members:

John Tunner 29 b Stratford, Ess
Fanny Tunner 24 ditto
John Tunner 3 ditto
Margaret Tunner 5 Old Ford, Middlesex
Maria Mead 19

Here is the 1851 John and Jane although Jane has morphed into Fanny. Margaret still a bit of a mystery. Will carry on looking sidewards at Carolyn's William as a possible bro for John b 1821.

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

I am overwhelmed by the information all of you are providing on this thread and will try and sort it all out going forward.

I would like to start with the 1861 Census that I am pretty sure it is the correct one for John(1847) and his father John(1821)

RG9 Piece 301 Folio 123, Page 22, GSU roll 542610

1) John FORD, Head 40, Labourer, born Burnham, MDX
2) Jane FORD, Wife, 35, born West Ham, Essex,
3) John FORD, Son, 14, born West Ham, Essex
4) Eliza FORD, Daugh., 10, born Bromley, MDX
5) George FORD, Son, 5, born Bromley, MDX

I would like to work back from here starting with 1851 census which you may have already provided and I will look and see if you have. I am busy with two other projects; renovating a bathroom and building a website of my husbands war time letters.

I can see the tree that you linked on Ancestry so have this, we have now gone back to 1851 and also have the census for father john and the family for 1851, 61, 71 and 81,

1841 is proving elusive for both families

I assume that you still have access to Ancestry?

[vera2013]

On Ancestry a possible for William Ford in 1841. Living at *Wick St, Hackney St John, Middlesex Single, Labourer. Not born in County. * Same address as that on mc to Margaret Twigg 1842.

FMP 699/4/24/15

On FMP There is also an Essex baptism record for William Ford b 1812 baptised West Ham All Saints 1815. Father George, mother Ann Gardiner

On FMP an Essex baptism for John Ford b 1815 bap 1815. Father George, mother Ann Gardiner.


I can see a John Ford in West Ham in 1841 with father George both Gardening. Also John Ford on the 1851 West Ham, Visitor, Jobbing Gardener. Possible link to William but not John Ford b 1821 who married Jane Hudson.

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

looks like no connection - or if it is will be back another generation. Parish Records for Essex are not that good on line.

[vera2013]

No obvious link to John Ford b 1821 Stratford, Essex but will post in case something turns up

1841 Census

Mary Ford aged 50 +/-5 Laundress Not born in County
Caroline Ford 15 Laundress Born in County

Living ?Deans Court, Stratford, West Ham

Next door
John Turner 50 +/- 5 Labourer Not born in County
Charlotte 40 +/-5 Not born in County

Living ?Deans Court, Stratford, West Ham

Death of a
Charlotte Turner b 1800. Burial 08/12/1850 West Ham All Saints

FMP 323/13/43/32
FMP 323/13/43/31

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

interesting find, looks promising.

John had a child Caroline and isn't that common, so could be a family name.