Change of Surname from Ford to Turner

[cbcarolyn]

Looking good for John's death though, need to find his parents and see if there is a Turner involved.

[Katarzyna]

This is Jane Hudson on 1841 possibly with mother Hannah (widow or unmarried?) and brother Saml.? East Street, Stratford.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8978/images/ESSCHO107_323_324-0077?treeid=152752264&personid=322028456051&hintid=&queryId=3c664d6645eb003dd6c87aa08b4d63b3&usePUB=true&_phsrc=PVx4666&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.99585694.1402467132.1624212584-513888147.1623493091&pId=16289299

[vera2013]

Marriage 1843 gives father for John Ford as John Ford Bricklayer.

Can't see any baptism to fit above but there is this

St Mary Stratford, Bow

John Ford bp 15 July 1821, mother Mary Ford. No father listed. Abode Bow

Vera

[Katarzyna]

Jane Hudson Baptised 10 years after her birth.

Birth date 01 May 1825
Baptism date 13 Sep 1835
Father Samuel Hudson
Father's occupation Sawyer
Mother Hannah
Place Stratford, St John
Residence Stratford
County Essex

If this is so then the Ancestry tree has wrong parents for Jane ie Hannah not Sarah Bartlett?

[barbebarn]

This is the tree that my husband has and is our most extensive one, so we have Jane HUDSON's correct parents.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/6150369/person/-861251027/facts

[cbcarolyn]

Marriage 1843 gives father for John Ford as John Ford Bricklayer.

Can't see any baptism to fit above but there is this

St Mary Stratford, Bow

John Ford bp 15 July 1821, mother Mary Ford. No father listed. Abode Bow

Vera

father maybe a red herring then on MC

[vera2013]

father maybe a red herring then on MC

Could be Carolyn. So where did Turner come from. Looking at Mary Ford maybe marrying a Turner after John's birth but not getting very far. Still can't locate Margaret b 1846.

Vera

[barbebarn]

This is a synopsis of John TURNER and his wife Mary Selina SMITH.

Mary Selina Smith was born at Brighton Terrace, Gore Street, Kirkdale, in the County of Lancashire, England. (According to Margaret Smith of Sussex, Mary Selina's father was John Lambert Smith who died about the age of 50, however, she claimed he also had children born in 1872, 74 and 76, suggesting he was of another generation - ref. letter 27 March 1980). She died of cardiac arrest in Toronto at her home at 20 Gilbert Street, and is buried in Prospect Park Cemetery.

Mary Selina SMITH married John FORD (spelled FORDE in marriage certificate) on 24 July 1872 at the Parish Church in Aldershot, County of Southampton. He was a plasterer and gave his age as 25, Mary's age was given as 18. John FORD was born 9 May 1847 at Farrington Place, Stratford, County of Essex, son of John Ford, labourer, and Jane Hudson. He died of Bright's disease at High Street, Leyton, County of Essex on 24 Aug 1881.
We initially find John using the TURNER surname in the 1871 census as a Boarder and Plasterer in Teddington, Surrey and then again in the 1881 Census with his family just before his death. However, he is listed as a FORD on his death certificate.
In 1891 Census, Mary is with sons John and Sidney and they are listed as FORD. It is interesting to note that the three of them have the initial T before their surname.
She is found in the 1901 census calling herself Minnie TURNER at 4 Clyde Terrace, Farnborough, Southampton along with sons John L, James Sidney and daughter Edith, as well as her illigitimate son Philip, all with the surname TURNER. When Edith Mary Selina was married in 1902 she gave her father's name as John Turner, deceased. Edith Turner Dash (Mary Selina's grand-daughter) claimed that her grandmother had married without the consent of her father and had been ostracized. She claimed Mary Selina had a brother, Albert Smith who emigrated to South Africa (however, she also said her mother's brother Albert Phillips had emigrated to South Africa, suggesting a potential conflict in memory). When she emigrated to Canada with John, Sydney and Philip on board the S.S. Carthiginian from Liverpool to Halifax on 11 May 1907 she was described in the ship list as a widow from Surrey, England. Edith recalled that Mary Selina was employed at the estate of the Dudley Ward family when she gave birth to her last child in 1897. Philip Potter Turner was born out of wedlock in Surrey.

[cbcarolyn]

barbebarn Post 8 has John (father of John b 1847) using Turner in 1851, so Turner is in use in the previous generation.

You can search several places using Mothers maiden name now, so you can find all the children of a family, as you in the threads that have been posted.

here are the Smith/Cromwell children from the GROwebsite

SMITH, MARGARET EMMA CROMWELL
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 321
SMITH, MARY SELINA CROMWELL
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 334

[vera2013]

Good find Kat. I think.I have the deaths of John and Jane Non Comm burials Victoria Park Cemetery Hackney

John Ford 4 Reeve St Poplar aged 43 buried 2 Jan 1869
Jane Ford Love Lane, Rotherhithe aged 39 buried 28 June 1870 not sure about Rotherhithe that's South London

Vera

Not the correct John Ford. This John Ford is a John George Ford b Whitechapel married to Sarah Ann who is a widow in 1871.

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

I think this must be the family, still swapping names

here is another child:
FORD, HARRY JAMES HUDSON
GRO Reference: 1867 D Quarter in POPLAR UNION Volume 01C Page 713

1881 census

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7572&h=15495853&tid=171416310&pid=162300705736&queryId=21ec2dce767d0d7f0d3ef2f6eb97fa0c&usePUB=true&_phsrc=fVi43544&_phstart=successSource

Name: Harry Turner
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relationship to Head: Son (Wife) (Ambiguous)
Gender: Male
Where born: Poplar, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Bromley St Leonard
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 10A Ellesmere Street
Occupation: Errand Boy
Registration District: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Piece: 499
Folio: 132
Page Number: 40

Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Turner 54
Harry Turner 13
C. Garner 21
Joseph Parkers 31


1871 census
Name: Jane Turner
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: 1827
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Stratford Essex England
Civil parish: Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Poplar
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 135
Piece: 581
Folio: 99
Page number: 23

Household Members Age Relationship
John Turner 49 Head
Jane Turner 44 Wife
George Turner 15 Son
Eliza Turner 18 Daughter
Harry Turner 3 Son

well I think these are them

[vera2013]

Oh good find. Have been searching for him Carolyn to try to link with a death of father John I found. Ended up.trawling the Guardians until my Kindle got stuck.on images.

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

there is a John Ford that died in 1881 in Poplar, name too common to know if it could be him

Name: John Ford
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Death Registration Place: Poplar, London, United Kingdom
Death Date: Mar 1881
Inferred Death Place: London, United Kingdom
Volume: 1c
Page: 469

[cbcarolyn]

it is clear that the name swapping stemmed from the previous generation, but can't see a reason.

[vera2013]

it is clear that the name swapping stemmed from the previous generation, but can't see a reason.

Couldn't find a marriage for Mary Ford of Bow who gave birth to a John Ford in 1821. Maybe 1841 will have him as a Turner.

Vera

[vera2013]

there is a John Ford that died in 1881 in Poplar, name too common to know if it could be him

Name: John Ford
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Death Registration Place: Poplar, London, United Kingdom
Death Date: Mar 1881
Inferred Death Place: London, United Kingdom
Volume: 1c
Page: 469

That's the one I opted f or 1881 Census was taken 03 April. Can't see a burial record

Vera

[cbcarolyn]

and this one possibly Jane

Name: Jane Ford
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Death Registration Place: Poplar, London, United Kingdom
Death Date: Sep 1885
Inferred Death Place: London, United Kingdom
Volume: 1c
Page: 412

[barbebarn]

Here is John FORD 's death certificate. I'm pretty certain this is the right one as he was living on High Street in 1881 census.

[barbebarn]

Here is John & Jane HUDSON's marriage certificate.

[vera2013]

Hello barbebarn

That dc is son John Ford aka Turner b 1848. The other death cert is a possible for father John Ford aka Turner b 1821. He died 1st quarter 1881. Poplar reg.

vera